Wyeast 1469

[private4587]

I am about to embark on brewing a 23lt Timothy Taylor's Landlord using the wyeast 1469, it states on the smackpac that it can be added straight to wort. But I am interested in making a starter in which i would overbuild (if I knew how ) so that i wouldn't have to buy new yeast for a few brews to come. Is there a step by step on how to do this. Have checked the stickies but unable to locate one. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Linalmeemow]

With the relatively low OG I'd expect from a TT Landlord I wouldn't imagine you'd absolutely have to make a starter as there should be enough cells in the smackpack to deal with the fermentables. Post-fermentation there'll be more than enough viable yeast left to do 2-3 new brews.

 

[MyQul]

Here you go

http://brulosophy.com/methods/yeast-harvesting/

 

[MyQul]

With the relatively low OG I'd expect from a TT Landlord I wouldn't imagine you'd absolutely have to make a starter as there should be enough cells in the smackpack to deal with the fermentables. Post-fermentation there'll be more than enough viable yeast left to do 2-3 new brews.

I always recommend making a starter for a smak pak as you dont know how the yeast has been treated on it's way over from the states to you. Sure it might ferment your wort out fine, but it might not. Making a starter almost guaruntees it will

 

[private4587]

I have used the Calculator Homebrew Dad's Yeast Starter Calculator v1.1
and it states that shaking the starter as oppose to stir plate i would need to to do a two step starter. MyQul you say you use a demijohn as a starter flask, does this work Ok on a stir plate? Is there any other way to harvest yeast although i suppose i still need the original yeast count as stated in the calculator.

 

[MyQul]

I have used the Calculator Homebrew Dad's Yeast Starter Calculator v1.1
and it states that shaking the starter as oppose to stir plate i would need to to do a two step starter. MyQul you say you use a demijohn as a starter flask, does this work Ok on a stir plate? Is there any other way to harvest yeast although i suppose i still need the original yeast count as stated in the calculator.

I dont use a stir plate, just shake the DJ at least 4 times a day. 've seen quite a lot of different ways to harvest yeast. I mentioned overbuilding which I use. Top cropping is a good one (I PMed you a link to a method similar to top cropping). What exactly are you trying to achieve if overbuilding doesnt suit your purpose?

 

[private4587]

I dont use a stir plate, just shake the DJ at least 4 times a day. 've seen quite a lot of different ways to harvest yeast. I mentioned overbuilding which I use. Top cropping is a good one (I PMed you a link to a method similar to top cropping). What exactly are you trying to achieve if overbuilding doesnt suit your purpose?

I am trying to overbuild but without having a stir plate the calculator is staying that i need to do a two step starter and i thought that this might be costly?
I don't mind having a go at building starter but haven't got a suitable flask. Is the way you do overbuilding involve multiple steps for the starter?

 

[MyQul]

I am trying to overbuild but without having a stir plate the calculator is staying that i need to do a two step starter and i thought that this might be costly?
I don't mind having a go at building starter but haven't got a suitable flask. Is the way you do overbuilding involve multiple steps for the starter?

I do multiple steps if my yeast has been in the fridge for more than a month or so. If you use a fresh smak pak in a 2L starter you shouldnt need multiple step ups(unless the OG is over 1.060) . 1.5L can go in the wort and 500ml can be used for the overbuild. You can keep the overbuild in the fridge and harvest from the bottom of the FV for three sucessive brew if the brews are done within 2-3 weeks of each other by just harversting some trub in a jar then chucking it into the next brew. No need for a starter (that's what I do).
Then the 500ml overbuild will have been in the fridge for some time so will probably need 2x2L starters step ups to make sure there enough cells.

I it's not costly to do 2x2L step up (remember you've already got 3 brews out of the smak pak). I just go to holland and barratt and buy malt extract for £2.69 and usually you can get buy one get one half price. You need 220ml for a 2L starter and the jar has 454g in it so you can get 2 starter out of a jar.

As I've mentioned you can use a DJ or a 5L water bottle without a stir plate. A stir plate will get you more cells but you dont HAVE to have one

 

[johnnyboy1965]

No need for a starter, pitch the whole lot and rinse the trub post ferment. You will have enough yeast for 2/3 further brews

 

[private4587]

I do multiple steps if my yeast has been in the fridge for more than a month or so. If you use a fresh smak pak in a 2L starter you shouldnt need multiple step ups(unless the OG is over 1.060) . 1.5L can go in the wort and 500ml can be used for the overbuild. You can keep the overbuild in the fridge and harvest from the bottom of the FV for three sucessive brew if the brews are done within 2-3 weeks of each other by just harversting some trub in a jar then chucking it into the next brew. No need for a starter (that's what I do).
Then the 500ml overbuild will have been in the fridge for some time so will probably need 2x2L starters step ups to make sure there enough cells.

I it's not costly to do 2x2L step up (remember you've already got 3 brews out of the smak pak). I just go to holland and barratt and buy malt extract for �£2.69 and usually you can get buy one get one half price. You need 220ml for a 2L starter and the jar has 454g in it so you can get 2 starter out of a jar.

As I've mentioned you can use a DJ or a 5L water bottle without a stir plate. A stir plate will get you more cells but you dont HAVE to have one

Taking note that i have used this calculator (Homebrew Dad's Yeast Starter Calculator v1.1 and that my OG is 1.042 the cal shows that if i am shaking as opposed to stir plate then the smack pac alone will not give me enough cells also even producing a 2l starter will not produce enough hence my question about stepped starters. That is if I am using the cal correctly

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Dont worry about calculations/viable yeast count. The smack-packs are designed to brew 25li of beer. Unless you have a microscope and are willing to count yeast cells etc.......

 

[MyQul]

Taking note that i have used this calculator (Homebrew Dad's Yeast Starter Calculator v1.1 and that my OG is 1.042 the cal shows that if i am shaking as opposed to stir plate then the smack pac alone will not give me enough cells also even producing a 2l starter will not produce enough hence my question about stepped starters. That is if I am using the cal correctly

A smak pak is should be enough cells for a 23L brew if it's fresh. Putting it in a starter should give you loads more cells then you need

 

[johnnyboy1965]

A smak pak is should be enough cells for a 23L brew if it's fresh. Putting it in a starter should give you loads more cells then you need

Very, very debatable. JMHO you dont want to make a "starter". You just need to prove the viability of the yeast...ie is it alive. We cannot count yeast cells its impossible, all we need to know is if its alive.

 

[MyQul]

A smak pak has 100bl cell in it

A wort of 1.042 need 178bl cells

Putting the smak pak in a 2L starter and manually shaking gives you 229 bl cells

If you want a 100bl cells overbuild you need to do a second step up of 2L which results in 361bl cells

(this is all according to the calc)

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Ill give you a example.........certain brewing software recommends that your pitching yeast has 2/3/4/1000000 yeast cells. This is great, just one small question...How do you measure yeast cells?

 

[johnnyboy1965]

A smak pak has 100bl cell in it

A wort of 1.042 need 178bl cells

Putting the smak pak in a 2L starter and manually shaking gives you 229 bl cells

If you want a 100bl cells overbuild you need to do a second step up of 2L which results in 361bl cells

(this is all according to the calc)

Your calculations are great, providing that you can gaurentee (sp) that there are 1 bl viable cells in th pack.

 

[MyQul]

Very, very debatable. JMHO you dont want to make a "starter". You just need to prove the viability of the yeast...ie is it alive. We cannot count yeast cells its impossible, all we need to know is if its alive.

I agree, very debatable (just google how many cells in 1 ml of starter).

Apparently you can count yeast cells. You need a microscope, a particular type of dye and something called a hecometer? (iirc). I'm never going to do it so I've never looked into it too closely so I've probably got the name of the equipment wrong.

Overall I agree, you dont HAVE to put a smak pak in a starter as it's designed to be good to go after you smak it. But you dont know how it's been treated on its way from WYeast to your door. I'm guessing most of the time it'll be fine but putting it in a starter almost guarentees you'll have a viable amount of yeast. Also if you harvest by overbuilding you need to put it in a starter as part of the process

 

[MyQul]

Your calculations are great, providing that you can gaurentee (sp) that there are 1 bl viable cells in th pack.

Ill give you a example.........certain brewing software recommends that your pitching yeast has 2/3/4/1000000 yeast cells. This is great, just one small question...How do you measure yeast cells?

These are two reasons why personally I dont bother with yeast calculators as the calculators cant take into account variables like this into account. I just go by experience, trying not to underpitch and not concerning myself if I overpitch as it isnt much of a problem at the HB level

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Excellent discussion.
JMHO...There is a dark area in HBing, between a "starter" and "proving" a yeast

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Ill give you a example.........certain brewing software recommends that your pitching yeast has 2/3/4/1000000 yeast cells. This is great, just one small question...How do you measure yeast cells?

These are two reasons why personally I dont bother with yeast calculators as the calculators cant take into account variables like this into account. I just go by experience, trying not to underpitch and not concerning myself if I overpitch as it isnt much of a problem at the HB level

JMHO under pitching is better than over-pitching.
Under pitch..the yeast will eventually do its job.
Over-pitching ...the yeast will get lazy and not finish its job