Woke.

[Braufather]

Not sure what this is got to do with woke ( im definitely not) so leaving that aside and just focusing on the video, fighting climate change through proactive measures like reducing carbon emissions and investing heavily in technology into clean energy are not mutually exclusive and both avenues need to be pursued with gusto. his argument seems to be dont worry about the former, the latter will sort everything out (conveniently)

Typical populist tacit of offering simple and easy answers to massively complex questions.

UK being only 2%, yes but there are a lot of similar nations and those 2 per cents all add up

Plus The UK has a lot of soft power and taking the lead helps influence other nations over thieir emissions which will be critical. even more so the more countries on board.

Maybe i am wrong and the populist alternative right know more than 99 per cent of the worlds leading scientists

 

[Brewnaldo]

I do wonder if i'm not making my point clearly so i'll give it another go. We have, apparently, widespread agreements with this guys points. I personally don't believe he has actually came with any, so i'll try to break down my objections.

He makes a big deal of the developing world being big polluters, and also unwilling to change that. He also says that the developing world should be helped up to speed. Lastly, he says that science will hopefully deliver us a path as it has before. If anyone can show me any evidence that the "woke culture" to which he refers were hitherto unaware, or not in agreement with those points, then I will accept that he has brought something to the table.

So we accept that the UK by itself can't stop pollution. It is at this point that I took his message to be "stop making a noise, and wait for some undefined point in the future where science will fix it". I've been told that this isnt his point..... So can someone tell me what it is he is telling the completely ficticious "woke culture" to do. Is he telling them, as I have suggested "can't win, don't try"? Is he telling them "the efforts of the individual are futile and pointless"?

Some tell me what they believe his real message... What he was educated these people on that they didnt already know?

Or is this just a paper thin circle-jerk of confirmation bias?

 

[Rodcx500z]

I think he means people in poor country's don't have the means or money to be as green as us, and if that means lighting a communial bonfire to cook a meal and feed the children that is what they will do, they don't care about the damage staying alive comes first

 

[Brewnaldo]

Yeah, but who didn't know that already, and what is he suggesting they change on the basis of this?

Because for me he is suggesting they should be quiet and stop demanding change in the UK.

Effectively, as I said earlier, he is going to bat for those who wish to continue as is, unimpeded by any notion of the UK doing its bit, or tting an example.

Now if you agree that is hos point and you think he is correct, coold, that's your right
But iv been told I'm wrong, so I'm looking for someone to tell me what it is this man is saying in terms of what they agree with, and how it contradicts the woke bogeyman

 

[Clint]

We are driven and controlled by the "masters" of our society who run the economy, banks and vast proportion of available employment. But..the finger is always pointed to the bottom of the sh1theap.
YOU LOT..need to do this..that and the other or you'll all burn under a fireball sun,freeze to death or get washed away...well...so will everyone else.
I'll see you all in hell.
Where's the beer?
Slipper footed fascists...

 

[Rodcx500z]

I am greener than green i can't be any greener if i was i would be called Grinch, nowt will change and things will stop as they are

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Britain only produces 2% of carbon emissions if we slipped into the sea we would make no difference whatsoever to climate change.

Climate change is going to be decided in Asia and Latin America by poor people who couldn't give a **** about saving the planet you know why because they are poor.

At the same time, they will always say "Why should we do anything if the rich countries aren't?" Answer that question.

there is only one thing we can do in this country to stop climate change and that is to make scientific and technological breakthroughs that will create clean energy that is also cheap

And the nature of progress is that these things start off expensive and only have a market amongst rich people who are looking at the big picture and not just the bottom line, then that develops a market and things get cheaper and more affordable. Which is exactly what has happened with solar and wind power, so that now they are the cheapest source of electricity in most parts of the world.

the main thing Xi Jinping has to do to stay in power is to deliver the one thing the people of china want prosperity and economic growth, where do you think climate change ranks on Xi Jinpings list of priorities.

Perhaps some facts are in order rather than rants. Countries like China are making massive investments in renewable energy, because it's the cheapest way to an industrialised lifestyle - and in the case of China it also helps remove their huge vulnerability of not being able to do what they want over eg Taiwan in case the West sanction all the energy they import.

 

[dad_of_jon]

At the same time, they will always say "Why should we do anything if the rich countries aren't?" Answer that question.

The more advanced countries should share more technology to help make the biggest reductions. As with regards lighting for instance we are at the point of diminishing returns. Any further reductions become disproportionally expensive. From a 100w bulb to a 20w CFL to a 7w led bulb.

That different to saying why should we bother doing anything, we can be busting a gut for small amounts now when bigger reductions are available elsewhere or maybe we just want to keep the 3rd world , well... 3rd world for exploitation purposes

Ps. the graph was investment in 2022. I don't deny those numbers seem reasonable. How much money has the UK already invested prior to 2022. You'd think we'd be higher up the table or maybe that money went somewhere else?

 

[Clint]

Whereas the Chinese government may ensure the money gets to where it should to progress its renewable energy projects I suspect over here a lot of it will be payed out in wages and ",bonuses"...and more bonuses and perks and expenses.

 

[aamcle]

Don't be too +ve about China they still building a LOT of coal powered plants. But they at least seem to be planning not just running to and fro as Twitter storms pass by.

Aamcle

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The more advanced countries should share more technology to help make the biggest reductions.

But that's exactly what's happening in things like solar panels and wind turbines and all the rest.

As with regards lighting for instance we are at the point of diminishing returns. Any further reductions become disproportionally expensive. From a 100w bulb to a 20w CFL to a 7w led bulb.

I'd look at it another way - sure there's many more sectors that are at earlier stages in their journey than lighting - but lighting shows what can be done if we put our minds to it and it doesn't have to be too painful. And yes, some of the intermediate steps like CFLs weren't great, but we have ended up in a pretty good place. We put up with incandescent bulbs for a century even though they weren't that great - aside from the leccy consumption, they are bulky, fragile, blow all the time - Christmas lights alone were a nightmare.

So why not be a bit more glass-half-full?

Ps. the graph was investment in 2022. I don't deny those numbers seem reasonable. How much money has the UK already invested prior to 2022. You'd think we'd be higher up the table or maybe that money went somewhere else?

Why would we be higher up that table? Have you any idea how much bigger the US, Chinese and German economies are compared to us? Arguably we should be further *down* that table if eg Japan was pulling its weight. I don't get why you want to make out that the UK is doing badly in this area when globally we're generally reckoned to be doing pretty well.

As for prior to 2022 - the chart of electrical output gives a pretty good idea of the pattern of spending.

Whereas the Chinese government may ensure the money gets to where it should to progress its renewable energy projects I suspect over here a lot of it will be payed out in wages and ",bonuses"...and more bonuses and perks and expenses.

Heaven forbid that British workers should be paid decent wages. Or would you rather that the UK average wage was more like the Chinese average of £11k-ish? But again, some people just want to see the bad in Britain.

Don't be too +ve about China they still building a LOT of coal powered plants.

Sure, everything about China is big. But compared with where they were even a few years ago, it's one heck of a transformation for spending on coal plants to be <10% of their spending on renewables.

To give one example - China has programmes where around a third of all buildings in a county will be fitted with solar panels (ranging from 20% of all residential buildings to 50% of government properties), and at least half of new-builds. We could do that.

France now has a rule that all car parks of more than 80 spaces have to be half-covered in solar panels within 5 years (3 years for >400 spaces). We could do that.

 

[Clint]

But that's exactly what's happening in things like solar panels and wind turbines and all the rest.

I'd look at it another way - sure there's many more sectors that are at earlier stages in their journey than lighting - but lighting shows what can be done if we put our minds to it and it doesn't have to be too painful. And yes, some of the intermediate steps like CFLs weren't great, but we have ended up in a pretty good place. We put up with incandescent bulbs for a century even though they weren't that great - aside from the leccy consumption, they are bulky, fragile, blow all the time - Christmas lights alone were a nightmare.

So why not be a bit more glass-half-full?

Why would we be higher up that table? Have you any idea how much bigger the US, Chinese and German economies are compared to us? Arguably we should be further *down* that table if eg Japan was pulling its weight. I don't get why you want to make out that the UK is doing badly in this area when globally we're generally reckoned to be doing pretty well.

As for prior to 2022 - the chart of electrical output gives a pretty good idea of the pattern of spending.

Heaven forbid that British workers should be paid decent wages. Or would you rather that the UK average wage was more like the Chinese average of £11k-ish? But again, some people just want to see the bad in Britain.

Sure, everything about China is big. But compared with where they were even a few years ago, it's one heck of a transformation for spending on coal plants to be <10% of their spending on renewables.

To give one example - China has programmes where around a third of all buildings in a county will be fitted with solar panels (ranging from 20% of all residential buildings to 50% of government properties), and at least half of new-builds. We could do that.

France now has a rule that all car parks of more than 80 spaces have to be half-covered in solar panels within 5 years (3 years for >400 spaces). We could do that.

I should have been more specific sorry....government investment going to set up companies with directors on massive wages and bonus and perks,shares whatever,that make nothing for a few years and go bust.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Britain only produces 2% of carbon emissions if we slipped into the sea we would make no difference whatsoever to climate change.

Well that's blatantly untrue. If it slipped into the sea, it would make a 2% difference!

 

[Bosch]

I would imagine most of those emissions from China are produced from making crap for Western consumers

 

[Clint]

I would imagine most of those emissions from China are produced from making crap for Western consumers

So it's our fault entirely. Perhaps we should make our own crap.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

So it's our fault entirely. Perhaps we should make our own crap.

If only we still had the skills to do that Clint not only don't we make crap we don't really make anything anymore.

 

[Clint]

Yeah you're right. Pity that UK companies thought it was a great idea to move production abroad for cheapness but still manage to charge quite a lot for the end product. I know there's cost factors,shipping etc but it used to be in a lot of cases..fill a container and they'd ship it for free..so I was told by someone who was importing lots of stuff from China.

 

[Bosch]

So it's our fault entirely. Perhaps we should make our own crap.

Not our fault at all, just a fact that most manufacturing has moved to loss wage/low regulation countries.

It is one of the reasons inflation, until recently, was so low.