WLP001 Yeast Starter

[Ashley]

Hi all,

It's been some years since I posted on here but I'm back into brewing again and I have 2 brews planned over the coming weeks.

I've never made a yeast starter before so I've ordered a flask and some light DME.

It's my first ever IPA and I've purchased WLP001. I brew 60l batches at a time and it appears that the info on the back of the yeast packaging says I need a 3l starter.

Is this really necessary?

I purchased 2 packs, should I just use 1 or put them both into a 2l starter?

My predicted OG is 1.051-1.055 if that helps.

 

[Oneflewover]

Just plugged the numbers into the forum calculator and it reckons you'll need a 3l starter (assuming 100% viability on your yeast packs). What size is your flask? If it is 4 or 5 litre I'd pitch both into one 3l starter. If it is smaller, e.g. 2 or 3l I'd be inclined to make two 1.5l starters, using one pack for each. You can store the first in the fridge in a jar or something until ready to pitch

 

[Ashley]

Just plugged the numbers into the forum calculator and it reckons you'll need a 3l starter (assuming 100% viability on your yeast packs). What size is your flask? If it is 4 or 5 litre I'd pitch both into one 3l starter. If it is smaller, e.g. 2 or 3l I'd be inclined to make two 1.5l starters, using one pack for each. You can store the first in the fridge in a jar or something until ready to pitch

I've ordered a 2l flask on amazon and a magnetic stirrer. So I need a 1500ml beaker or something to transfer it into and do a 2nd one?

What would happen if I just did a 2l starter with both packs?

Apologies for noob questions

 

[Oneflewover]

I've ordered a 2l flask on amazon and a magnetic stirrer. So I need a 1500ml beaker or something to transfer it into and do a 2nd one?

What would happen if I just did a 2l starter with both packs?

Apologies for noob questions

Well, if you do a 2l starter in a 2l flask you are likely to end up with krausen escaping from the flask....as I have found to my cost .

Secondly, and I'm no expert, but I believe that a 2l starter will only allow propagation of a certain number of cells (depending on the gravity) regardless of how many cells you innoculate it with. Stand to be corrected....

 

[Ashley]

Well, if you do a 2l starter in a 2l flask you are likely to end up with krausen escaping from the flask....as I have found to my cost .

Secondly, and I'm no expert, but I believe that a 2l starter will only allow propagation of a certain number of cells (depending on the gravity) regardless of how many cells you innoculate it with. Stand to be corrected....

Please forgive me, but can you dumb that down, like you're talking to a 12 year old for me?

I just need you to explain the science as I've never done anything but pitch dried yeast before.

 

[Ashley]

Ok, I've done some reading but what I dlnt understand is, why wont the yeast multiply enough in a 2l starter? Will it not continue to multiply in a 60l fermenter?

 

[Oneflewover]

Ok, I'll try, but not wholly confident myself as I say.

Right. You haven't got enough yeast cells in your two packs to ensure a healthy, good fermentation. You need to grow (propagate) more cells. You use a wort of around 1.035 - 1.040 (a starter) to grow these cells. This is because this gravity of wort leads to the healthiest new cells. There is a certain amount of fermentable sugar in a 2l starter. It can only support growth of a certain number of new cells regardless of how many cells you originally put into it. You need more fermentable sugars to get the number of cells you need. Phew!

 

[Oneflewover]

Ok, I've done some reading but what I dlnt understand is, why wont the yeast multiply enough in a 2l starter? Will it not continue to multiply in a 60l fermenter?

It probably would. But it might be a weak fermentation, have a long lag phase etc, increasing the possibility of unwanted flavours or contaminants. Up to you buddy

 

[Ashley]

That, sir is a fantastic answer and I commend your knowledge and assistance

That makes perfect sense to me. So it has to be 1.035-1.040 and I cant make it a higher gravity to make up for it.

2l jar ordered for the first half of the starter then

Thank you very much!

Really excited to do this brew. I have a blackberry saison to brew this weekend and then in 2 weeks I'll make this starter brew.

Never done an IPA before so lots of firsts including chinook, Amarillo, Munich malt, yeast starter... cant wait to feel like a proper home brewer after all these years

 

[Oneflewover]

That, sir is a fantastic answer and I commend your knowledge and assistance

That makes perfect sense to me. So it has to be 1.035-1.040 and I cant make it a higher gravity to make up for it.

2l jar ordered for the first half of the starter then

Thank you very much!

No problemo. You could just use an empty (sanitised) pop bottle to store the first batch in?...

 

[Ashley]

It probably would. But it might be a weak fermentation, have a long lag phase etc, increasing the possibility of unwanted flavours or contaminants. Up to you buddy

Is it a good thing to do starters with dried yeast as well? Would the fermentation process start quicker if I did?

 

[Ashley]

No problemo. You could just use an empty (sanitised) pop bottle to store the first batch in?...

Ah. That's £5 wasted then

 

[Brew_DD2]

Is it not a bit risky doing your first batch of IPA in such a high volume? 60l is a lot of beer. Have you thought about doing a test batch at a smaller volume? You could then use the yeast slurry as a big starter for your 60l batch.

 

[Ashley]

Is it not a bit risky doing your first batch of IPA in such a high volume? 60l is a lot of beer. Have you thought about doing a test batch at a smaller volume? You could then use the yeast slurry as a big starter for your 60l batch.

Nah f*ck it. I only brew in 50-60l batches as it yields the most beer from the same time and effort.

I got a 5 star recipe from beersmith and scaled it up for 60 but dropped some of the ABV to make it more sessionable.

 

[Ashley]

Nah f*ck it. I only brew in 50-60l batches as it yields the most beer from the same time and effort.

I got a 5 star recipe from beersmith and scaled it up for 60 but dropped some of the ABV to make it more seasonable.

I'll also be dry hopping for 2 weeks in the FV