Windsor yeast - any thoughts?

[ChemPaul]

Hi all,

Not posted much but I hope you can help :)

Just brewed an ESB bitter last week and it finished out at 1.012 (from 1.048 - Nottingham yeast, 68 oC, 80 mins mash) which was slightly surprising (as I was aiming for 65-70% attenuation, with the higher mash temp, not 75%). Now Ive brewed a fair bit with Nottingham and am quite happy with the results, but I was hoping for something with more sweetness and yeast character (the final beer is fine, but could do with a little more sweetness). I was thinking of trying Windsor next so was wondering what you folks thought of swapping Nottingham for Windsor, with the aim of replicating a Fullers ESB style beer. Would it not attenuate enough, or would flocculation be a problem without chilling/heavy fining (is Windsor a problem for this?) I know you can get the authentic Fullers yeast strain via internet vendors (at higher cost) but I am going to brew again in the next few days and have Windsor available.

Also, Fullers ESB has kind of marmalade accent to it. Any ideas on how to replicate that (without using marmalade :) ).
I just wonder how Fullers do it with just hops (or maybe they have a cunning secret not mentioned on the ingredients list....hmm :wha: )

Any help appreciated.

Cheers,

Paul

N.B. it was my first attempt at this beer recipe!

 

[periolus]

I found Windsor gave a more malty finish, it was very nice. Generally, I use Nottingham for darker beers -it is always excellent in stouts and porters.

To be honest, I would be tempted to use White Labs WLP002 English Ale Yeast. I think this is the Fullers yeast that is so revered by many brewers. WLP005 is also very good, but is slightly drier.

I hope that helps!

 

[doyley]

I like Windsor, it gives a more fruity beer than Nottingham, but it does take longer to clear. I have never had a problem with clarity, my brews have cleared in time without the use of any finings, but patience may be required. You could always have a bash at culturing Fullers yeast from Bengal Lancer or 1848.

 

[shocker]

Doyley , would you happen to know if the Bengal bottle culture is the ferment yeast or an added bottle condition yeast ? Have you used it yourself , if so ,what were the results ? I have seen mention of people culturing this themselves but not much about the taste result .

 

[oz11]

I use yeast from BL as my main yeast as I believe it is the primary Fuller's strain. It gives good results but I'm still yet to nail "that" Fuller's taste.

 

[periolus]

I found out recently that as part of the brewing process for at least one of the beers (at least for London Pride, but possibly others), the beer is taken down to freezing and then warmed up again to allow fermentation to complete. This might be 'that' taste you are looking for. Shame it's so bloody mild at the moment, or you could put it to the test in God's refrigerator!

 

[shocker]

Intersting ! :thumb: where did you come by that info ?

 

[periolus]

This might be a cop out answer, but I am not sure I am supposed to reveal the source, or confirming parties! It has been verified though.

I guess it must have happened by accident one day - maybe they lost power to the brewery one winter or something, and then just tried restoring the brew and tried the results.

EDIT: It is in historic brewery records so long time back.

 

[shocker]

Hey , if you gave your word , far be it from me to ask you to break a confidence , mate ! Mind you , I do have friends in bristol....only kidding....of course I have NO friends , anywhere :cry:

 

[periolus]

Hey , if you gave your word , far be it from me to ask you to break a confidence , mate ! Mind you , I do have friends in bristol....only kidding....of course I have NO friends , anywhere :cry:

Well, it might be alright, but it might have been said in a sort of 'this might be slightly confidential' kind of way - problem is I can't remember! In fact, I can't remember the guy's name who told me either. But I know his face. Maybe an ID parade at the next social

Sounds interesting though. I am going to get a slant of Fullers Yeast at some point and try the freezing process part way. I have no idea exactly when you are supposed to do it, but I reckon a couple of days before finish could be a goer.

I'll try it and let you know!

 

[doyley]

I believe that Fullers use the primary strain for their bottle conditioned beer, but I cannot state categorically that this is so. I have never tried yeast from Bengal Lancer, but I have had good results from 1845.

 

[shocker]

Thanks guys . I will have to give it a go in the new year . I used to be a big fan of London Pride when I was living in london as a youngster but it seems a very different beer nowadays , changing tastes with age notwithstanding , sadly . I am however a huge fan of Honeydew which I drank when it first appeared but stopped drinking for over 5 years and have now returned to it finding it just as I remember - lovely . It would be nice to use the Fullers yeast to try and capture a little of their taste . I must put a DJ aside , ready for action .

 

[Swift Pint]

I think part of the "Fullers flavour" will be due to the face that they do partigyle brewing whereby they take the first and second runnings from the same mash, and use them in different proportions for their different beers. For example London Pride and ESB use different ratios of first running and second runnings to get the different strength/darkness.

Im not sure how this relates to Bengal Lancer, which I tihnk is quite a new beer (?), but I can see how this would lead to consistent flavours across their other beers.

For a bit more info the brewing network have done a few shows trying to clone Fullers beers, I suspect the first one will have the most info about their partigyle brewing.

Hope this helps!

 

[shocker]

Thanks SP , good link . Just got in from the shops with a bottle of Bengal Lancer to cultivate from......

EDIT : well , it would be if I could work out how to listen to the archive shows....all I have managed so far is to listen to the current broadcast :cry:

MORE EDIT : must be the older shows not available , got the more recent one now !

 

[Swift Pint]

oh, there should be an option to download the mp3 of each episode.

I forgot to mention that they interview the brewer (cant remember the name of the guy from Fullers they talk to).
So it should be really informative if you can get a listen.