Why is my beer cloudy?

[Twopan]

I have had batches inexplicably refuse to clear, same recipe, same process, but one batch clears rapidly and another looks like pea soup after two weeks. It's happened a couple of times to a Malt Miller Leffe clone (all grain). I always add protofloc and brewbrite at the end of the boil but it's still inconsistent. I have found that being tempted to bung it it in the fridge after two weeks has no effect. The only thing that works is time. Leave the bottles in the shed/garage at cool, but not cold, temperatures for as long as it takes. My soupy Leffe eventually became as clear as a bell.

 

[malhal]

That Leffe clone has high protein malts pilsner and wheat which require change of process to clear, e.g.

• mash protein rest - break down proteins
• high mash calcium ppm - precipitate proteins
• 90min boil - break down proteins
• faster chill - precipitate proteins

 

[Mash Monster]

It looks like the OP is brewing from an extract kit therefore advice re mashing and boiling and grain crush etc. whilst they are valid points for all grain I’m not sure they are really applicable in this instance. I suggest that time is your friend here I have known some kits to take 6 weeks or more to drop bright. I only brew the occasional ‘sticky’ beer kit nowadays but always use BrauSol to help to clear them. Again not helpful as the beer is already packaged but maybe worth considering in future brews.

 

[Twopan]

That Leffe clone has high protein malts pilsner and wheat which require change of process to clear, e.g.

• mash protein rest - break down proteins
• high mash calcium ppm - precipitate proteins
• 90min boil - break down proteins
• faster chill - precipitate proteins

 

[Twopan]

@malhal thanks, but I don't understand some of the jargon
mash protein rest - can you tell me what that is please? I usually mash for 90mins using BIAB and then dunk sparge
high mash calcium ppm - precipitate proteins?
The other two I understand! I boil for 60mins, so will try a 90 min next time
Thanks

 

[malhal]

@malhal thanks, but I don't understand some of the jargon
mash protein rest - can you tell me what that is please? I usually mash for 90mins using BIAB and then dunk sparge

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/protein-rest.465999/
"A standard protein rest would be to mash in at ~120 and hold it for 20 mins, then step up to your next step (152 in your case) by infusion, decoction, direct heat or whatever other method you're using to change mash temp."

high mash calcium ppm - precipitate proteins?

This should explain calcium for clarity:
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...d-water-treatment-in-post-1.64822/post-605369

 

[micklupulo]

I am grateful for the replies and seem to have reignited a debate which as Mash Monster observes is largely academic to my situation which involves a (non hazy) kit. I did not originally mention this, for fear of clouding (sorry) the issue, but my previous brew had the same problem. That however involved a steep and sparge of dextrin so other factors could have been involved.

The common factors are the FV etc and the use of Dark Rock Heads Up and a heatpad.

The differences are that the previous one involved the steep etc.and was fermented in the garage so relied on the heatpad. Also I used SO4 yeast gelatine finings and no dry hopping.Not sure it was infected but it did not taste good and was eventually tipped.

This one was the kit as mentioned using MJ West Coast yeast fermented inside with the thermostatic heatpad as a failsafe only and a 50gm dry hop for the last two days in the bin and an FG of 1011 just below the recommended target of 1013. As mentioned I cannot detect an infection.

Any more input would be welcome !

 

[Mash Monster]

What temperature did you dry hop at ?
Were the hops pellets of leaf ?
Were they just dropped in or do you use a bag/hop sock ?
Did you cold crash before bottling?
What is your method of bottling from the fermenter ?
Just trying to understand why the beer is so cloudy as everything else seems to be fine

 

[micklupulo]

What temperature did you dry hop at ?
Were the hops pellets of leaf ?
Were they just dropped in or do you use a bag/hop sock ?
Did you cold crash before bottling?
What is your method of bottling from the fermenter ?
Just trying to understand why the beer is so cloudy as everything else seems to be fine

It would have been about 21°C and pellet hops in loose. I cannot cold crash when fermenting indoors as I use a spare room upstairs and cannot carry the FV down to the garage and have no way of chilling but did turn off the radiator and heatpad way before bottling which I do via the tap in the FV and a "little bottler" device so should be no oxygen.

 

[Mash Monster]

Ok there are mixed opinions on the temperature of dry hopping I personally dry hop at about 14°c as I have experienced ‘ Hop creep’ at warmer temperatures which can set off a secondary fermentation and add grassiness. I’m not saying this has happened to you but it is a possibility.
Have you tried a bottle? Is it over carbonated?
You may have just transferred a lot of suspended hop matter and yeast into your bottles which might have been left in the FV had you had the opportunity to cold crash. (Although I know a lot of people don’t bother )
Put a bottle in the fridge for a couple of days and see if it drops bright. Of course it is possible the beer has chill haze and refrigeration won’t help.
Time is your best friend here hopefully it will sort itself out

 

[micklupulo]

Ok there are mixed opinions on the temperature of dry hopping I personally dry hop at about 14°c as I have experienced ‘ Hop creep’ at warmer temperatures which can set off a secondary fermentation and add grassiness. I’m not saying this has happened to you but it is a possibility.
Have you tried a bottle? Is it over carbonated?
You may have just transferred a lot of suspended hop matter and yeast into your bottles which might have been left in the FV had you had the opportunity to cold crash. (Although I know a lot of people don’t bother )
Put a bottle in the fridge for a couple of days and see if it drops bright. Of course it is possible the beer has chill haze and refrigeration won’t help.
Time is your best friend here hopefully it will sort itself out

Yes I have tried two 330 bottles of which I filled 17 as samplers and for when a smaller quantity is useful. It is a bit lively but ok if poured carfully and slowly down the inside of the glass. So a little over carbonated and I suspect the heading agent is playing its part too. It tastes ok though the day after thè first one I felt discomfort which I put down to ingestion of yeast but the second one a week later did not have that effect though looked the same. I had already concluded the opaqueness is probably down to both yeast and hop material but don't think chill haze is a factor yet. I will put the clear bottle in the fridge for a few days and suppose that after taking it out I must bargain on chill haze and then after that has been allowed to clear I will know whether the exercise has worked. Thanks for the help.