Why bother seperating mens and women's sports?

[Gunge]

Ouch, weightlifter injuries look so painful!

A 25Kg sack of malt is the limit of what I'm inclined to lift, these days. Even that sometimes feels like I'm gonna get hurt if I don't do it right. Getting older sucks...

 

[Ajhutch]

A 25Kg sack of malt is the limit of what I'm inclined to lift, these days. Even that sometimes feels like I'm gonna get hurt if I don't do it right. Getting older sucks...

Two children up the stairs, I can just about manage it in an emergency!

 

[BeerCat]

Yuk, i don't ever want to watch mens beach volleyball. Never!

 

[GerritT]

Two children up the stairs, I can just about manage it in an emergency!

OFF the stairs on the other hand...

 

[marshbrewer]

Two children up the stairs, I can just about manage it in an emergency!

As our youngest (6) gets taller and taller I thank the day we decided to buy a bungalow.

 

[Thumper]

No it hasn't. The women are paid more per set.

So to be clear, the prize money is in fact the same, and some people are whining because women play less sets but get the same prize money? Have I understood that right?

Genuine question, I haven't been following this.

 

[Thumper]

"... if you have two X chromosomes, you play "women's" sport and if you have an X and a Y, you play men's sport."

It's not even nearly that simple.

http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html

This is a genuinely interesting read, btw.

 

[Saisonator]

"... if you have two X chromosomes, you play "women's" sport and if you have an X and a Y, you play men's sport."

It's not even nearly that simple.

http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html

When I read the line ‘Gender, typically described in terms of masculinity and femininity, is a social construction ’ then I realised that organisation has been polluted with Cultural Marxism.

 

[Thumper]

You can't just dismiss science because you don't like the conclusions drawn. Sex is biological, gender is social, and since gender definitions vary from culture to culture then they are by definition a cultural or social construct. This is simple fact, and there's scientific studies backing it up linked to in that very article.

 

[simon12]

The way I see it is, It used to be people used to be male or female and this was both there biological sex and gender, then the LGBT community decided that your biological sex was one thing and if it didn't match your gender was L,G,B or T instead. Then in the last few years ago a bunch of professional victims decided they couldn't fit into anything and theres no such thing as biological sex and its all fluid anyway and to disagree is violence and everyones a nazi.

Note I am not denying there is maybe 1 in 1000 people that have a medical abnormality/condition making making there biological sex less clear and im not including them in the above.

 

[Saisonator]

You can't just dismiss science because you don't like the conclusions drawn. Sex is biological, gender is social, and since gender definitions vary from culture to culture then they are by definition a cultural or social construct. This is simple fact, and there's scientific studies backing it up linked to in that very article.

The groups that are different to the normal, are very small groups within countries. Then the article tries to make out that western culture is somehow different in being binary, whereas 99% of the worlds populations are equally binary.
It’s just typical leftist revisionist bulls—t.

 

[Clint]

Just think if you were a half decent male athlete you could get some lipstick and a wonder bra and come home from the Olympics with a stash of medals!

 

[marshbrewer]

You can't just dismiss science because you don't like the conclusions drawn. Sex is biological, gender is social, and since gender definitions vary from culture to culture then they are by definition a cultural or social construct. This is simple fact, and there's scientific studies backing it up linked to in that very article.

Thumper, me old China, a social construct can't be science, any more than you can define a scientific experiment as to who is the best author, economist, etc

Just saying, :Cheers:

 

[Ken L]

"... if you have two X chromosomes, you play "women's" sport and if you have an X and a Y, you play men's sport."

It's not even nearly that simple.

http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html

This is a genuinely interesting read, btw.

Actually, it is that simple.
If (as stated by the article), gender is a social construction that varies across different cultures and over time, we can safely ignore it when splitting the world into two sex based divisions for the purposes of sport.
Gavin can have his surgery, wear makeup, call himself Laurel and pee sitting down but he is still a biological male and competes with the boy or not at all.
Similarly Women can have surgery, get tats and a buzz-cut and call themselves "Brian" but they are still women and compete against the girls - or more likely get excluded from competition due to their steroid, HGH and Testosterone levels.

 

[AdeDunn]

Anybody who thinks that SOME women couldn't compete with men on an equal level clearly never heard of Chyna... Ok, she had XXY, but she was still a woman who kicked mens bottoms.

So I say, let everybody compete together, with divisions/leagues, and allow ABILITY to define your place in the hierarchy, rather than whether you have spuds or not...

 

[Ken L]

Anybody who thinks that SOME women couldn't compete with men on an equal level clearly never heard of Chyna... Ok, she had XXY, but she was still a woman who kicked mens bottoms.

So I say, let everybody compete together, with divisions/leagues, and allow ABILITY to define your place in the hierarchy, rather than whether you have spuds or not...

There's no evidence that Chyna was XXY and lets not forget that she was "competing" in 100% fake "sports".

 

[AdeDunn]

There's no evidence that Chyna was XXY and lets not forget that she was "competing" in 100% fake "sports".

So fake that people regularly get injured, sometimes even killed. Oh and never said it was a sport, even WWE calls it "sports entertainment". When I do watch it (my wife is the fan, me not so much) I do so the same as I do an action movie, where I still have respect for the stunt performers who do very very dangerous things to entertain us, even if the whole thing is made up. As to the XXY, yeah ok, rumour had it that she allegedly was XXY... If you saw her during her earlier career, before the plastic surgery, she certainly had much more masculine features than she did later. :p

Nice job of ignoring the point of my post, to focus on something you could pick at though. lol

As far as I am concerned, sports are all just people doing stuff that should really only be done for fun, and not considered a "profession". Whether the outcome is decided ahead of time (WWE, probably lost of other less honest "sports"), or decided by who actually is better at it.

My POINT though was that I believe that male or female shouldn't decide who you compete with, ability should. I don't need to support this with cases etc, as if you think otherwise it's black and white mysogyny/misandry. Grading by ability is the only LOGICAL and rational method. Women having their own leagues etc is as unfair to men as it is to the women.

Here's an analogy for you. Have you ever watched Le Mans, or GT racing? There are different races going on, all within the one race. You have the independents competing in their Porches and the like, the higher end cars in their race, and the famous manufacturer prototypes too. All competing in the same "race", but with classes within said race. Nobody expects a road model type Porche to beat the prototypes, but they still get to join the race, and it's all the better for it. Ok, so team sports that's not as easy to do, and you'd have to adjust the laws to allow teams to chose members based on their ability regardless of gender or sex (right now, you'd have women taking teams to court, claiming discrimination....). Sure, you'd probably end up with a natural separation over time, BUT it would be entirely based on ability eh? Don't knee jerk with a reply, actually read what I just wrote, think about it fully.... :thumb:

I won't mention the potential legal minefield you'd face in contact sports, you'd have to really hope that men would behave themselves properly (keeping contact to that required by the sport), and women too! Women can be sods for copping a feel just as much as men...

 

[Ken L]

So fake that people regularly get injured, sometimes even killed. Oh and never said it was a sport, even WWE calls it "sports entertainment". When I do watch it (my wife is the fan, me not so much) I do so the same as I do an action movie, where I still have respect for the stunt performers who do very very dangerous things to entertain us, even if the whole thing is made up. As to the XXY, yeah ok, rumour had it that she allegedly was XXY... If you saw her during her earlier career, before the plastic surgery, she certainly had much more masculine features than she did later. :p

Nice job of ignoring the point of my post, to focus on something you could pick at though. lol

As far as I am concerned, sports are all just people doing stuff that should really only be done for fun, and not considered a "profession". Whether the outcome is decided ahead of time (WWE, probably lost of other less honest "sports"), or decided by who actually is better at it.

My POINT though was that I believe that male or female shouldn't decide who you compete with, ability should. I don't need to support this with cases etc, as if you think otherwise it's black and white mysogyny/misandry. Grading by ability is the only LOGICAL and rational method. Women having their own leagues etc is as unfair to men as it is to the women.

Here's an analogy for you. Have you ever watched Le Mans, or GT racing? There are different races going on, all within the one race. You have the independents competing in their Porches and the like, the higher end cars in their race, and the famous manufacturer prototypes too. All competing in the same "race", but with classes within said race. Nobody expects a road model type Porche to beat the prototypes, but they still get to join the race, and it's all the better for it. Ok, so team sports that's not as easy to do, and you'd have to adjust the laws to allow teams to chose members based on their ability regardless of gender or sex (right now, you'd have women taking teams to court, claiming discrimination....). Sure, you'd probably end up with a natural separation over time, BUT it would be entirely based on ability eh? Don't knee jerk with a reply, actually read what I just wrote, think about it fully.... :thumb:

I won't mention the potential legal minefield you'd face in contact sports, you'd have to really hope that men would behave themselves properly (keeping contact to that required by the sport), and women too! Women can be sods for copping a feel just as much as men...

I didn't think you had a point.
Chyna wasn't intersex or transgender and she didn't compete in a real sport so she's not really relevant here.

I'm not saying that WWE stars aren't fine athletes or that they don't do dangerous stuff - but what's that got to do with anything.

If you wanted to talk about tough women, look no further than MMA. The girls there are tough as nails and despite my 30 odd years teaching martial arts, many of them would hand me my ass - but they're not men.
Ronda Rousey fought at 135lb. That's the same weight as T.J. Dillashaw but Dillashaw or anyone else in the UFC's Bantamweight division would kill her in minutes.

 

[Thumper]

Thumper, me old China, a social construct can't be science, any more than you can define a scientific experiment as to who is the best author, economist, etc

Just saying, :Cheers:

I didn't say it could, so I'm not sure what your point is. The study of social constructs is a perfectly valid science, though.

 

[Thumper]

Actually, it is that simple.
If (as stated by the article), gender is a social construction that varies across different cultures and over time, we can safely ignore it when splitting the world into two sex based divisions for the purposes of sport.

No, biological sex isn't that simple. Did you get to the line about gender being a social construct and just stop?