White Labs Yeast - Expiry/Storage/Delivery problem

[periolus]

Hello!

I placed an order a week ago for some White Labs WLP775 cider yeast, which arrived yesterday (Saturday) This is good news - BUT - there are two things that concern me and i wanted to run by you all.

1. The expiry date is marked as 22 Jan 2011, which is a bit rubbish bearing in mind that is yesterday.
2. The yeast was all in a plug at the top of the phial where the cap is, with the liquid underneath at the bottom.

So my question is - is the yeast going to be alright? I wasn't planning on using it for at least another week - or should I be sending it back with a flea in the ear of the supplier?

Your thoughts please!

 

[mysterio]

It will more than likely be fine. I have used out of date yeast with success. You will need to make a starter but this is true of any liquid yeast.

It was in a plug because yeast flocculate, i.e. clump together. Gently shake it to get the yeast in suspension before putting it in your starter.

 

[periolus]

Okay cheers. If I am going to make 1 Gallon of cider, how do I make my starter? Do I just add the whole thing to 1L of the apple juice and warm gently to get it all going first? I will need to add the whole phial, right?

 

[evanvine]

To my way of thinking it's hardly worth bothering making a starter for 1 gallon, just tip it in.

 

[TheMumbler]

As far as beers go, White Labs yeast phials are supposed to be OK for pitching into 5 gallons assuming you aren't fermenting at a low temperature or in high gravities (over 1060) when nice and fresh. They recomend making a 1l starter if you are fermenting low, at high gravity or with older yeast. I'm assumming that the same rules apply for cider yeasts although their assumptions about gravity might be different. If you are making a gallon I would guess you would be OK just pitching it but you could easily enough make a starter, maybe start with 1l of juice in a DJ and then top it up once fermentation gets going. I'd be tempted to do a quick demijohn of turbo cider this way and then use some of the yeast cake to do your cider. Maybe split some off into asda water bottles while you are at it given the cost of that yeast to make just one gallon. Where did you buy from btw? Getting a phial that close to date isn't very impressive unless it was clearly advertised as such.

 

[drut]

+1 to Evanvine in this case, but as Mysterio says, a starter would prove viability (health).

The first couple of times I used White labs I was somewhat disappointed with lag time, even though the yeast was in date.
Then I found out that the 5 gallons is US, not UK! (And I was trying to ferment about 27 litre as well).

Now I always make a starter to check viability, to amplify (get more) and to spilt for future brews.

 

[Aleman]

1 Gallon is a starter :lol:

Make the 1 gallon batch of cider, then when you rack off the sediment . . . split the sediment 6 ways after adding a litre of cooled boiled water. Each of those should be enough to ferment a 5 gallon batch . . .or more 1 gallon batches.

FWIW I have successfully used a Whitelabs tube that was a year out of date (it fell to the back of the fridge) . . it took a day or so to get going in the 1 gallon starter, but made a good batch of beer.

 

[periolus]

Thanks guys. Well, I will make a 1L started to begin with and get it started. I could always sling it 1/2tsp of yeast nutrient as a peace offering and see what happens. I only make cider in 1 gallon batches at the moment. but tend to do two at a time and use the process to monitor changes. This time I am doing one with Youngs Cider Yeast and one with the White Labs. I have only ever used champagne yeast, so this will allow me to taste the differences and observe changes in the fermentation process.

I got the stuff from Hop & Grape. They have been a little bit slow in getting the stuff out, but the other stuff I ordered seems okay. I do think it is a bit shoddy getting yeast so close to expiration and I will email them to that effect.

I do need to get hold of some bottles to split the yeast into and am looking into lab bottles. Well - I'll let you know how it goes! I have my heat belt ready, DJs washed up and will get it all going tonight!

 

[mysterio]

Didn't realise it was only a gallon. Even so, as the yeast is out of date, it wouldn't harm to do a small starter.

 

[periolus]

Well I emailed Hop & Grape at about 4.30pm today and got a phone call at about 6.15pm from the proprietor apologising for the situation. We agreed that I should try the yeast, but a credit note will be put on my account for the next time I order. Can't say fairer than that really.

 

[periolus]

Well I made a starter last night - 1 pint of apple juice with 3 tsp of brewing sugar (all I had left!) and a little bit of nutrient. Popped a heat belt on it last night and I have bubbles this morning (1 in 20 seconds). When I come to make the TC tonight, should I just add the rest of the ingredients on top of this, or should I whizz it all up a bit and pour on top of the remaining ingredients in a new DJ? Should I avoid getting any further oxygen into it?

By the way, as an aside, this yeast smells really good - like a gourmet yeast!!! Yum!

 

[Aleman]

I'm sorry to keep banging on about this, if you are bored reading it imagine how I feel typing it over and over again

Well I made a starter last night -

Well Done

1 pint of apple juice

So you pitched a potential 200 billion yeast cells capable of fermenting 23L into 2% of its volume . . . and you were expecting what to happen? Lets face it by the time any viable cells had woken up tot he fact that 'fuel' (in the form of fruit sugars) was available, and started into the 'lag' phase . . .they would have used up all the sugar . . . and then wondered where it had gone . . . and dropped back out of lag phase. At least you have proved that the yeast contains some viable cells . . . zero yeast growth which is the main point of making a starter

with 3 tsp of brewing sugar (all I had left!)

:shock: :hmm: Why? why add sugar to a perfect medium for proper growth of yeast . . . be it apple juice for a cider starter, or spray malt/wort for a beer starter, Why the fcuk add sugar? The starter medium already contains the sugar the yeast needs as fuel for growth, why add more inferior sugar (from a flavour/yeast growth perspective)?

and a little bit of nutrient.

This I agree with :shock: whenever I am making a starter I always add yeast nutrient (Usually Brupaks or Tronozymol and some servomyces) to the starter. . . . after all I want healthy yeast ready to go and ferment the sugars I have provided it . . .so no harm done there.

Popped a heat belt on it last night and I have bubbles this morning (1 in 20 seconds). When I come to make the TC tonight, should I just add the rest of the ingredients on top of this, or should I whizz it all up a bit and pour on top of the remaining ingredients in a new DJ? Should I avoid getting any further oxygen into it?

You may as well just add the remaining juice on top . . . while there will be some alcohol present you are unlikely to damage anything by adding extra oxygen.

 

[periolus]

Well, seeing as I am about to put the kettle on, I may as well as add everthing else to the DJ. :thumb:

To be honest, Aleman, I just wanted to see if the stuff worked without potentially wasting loads of juice. Now that I know it does I will crack on with it. Looking forward to the results, if the yeast is as good as it says on the 'tin'.

 

[periolus]

Done.

Notes taken.

Bollocking digested.

Lesson learned.

Milton fluid spilled into coffee. :sick:

Moving on.......

 

[evanvine]

Milton fluid spilled into coffee. :sick:

Moving on.......

:rofl: :rofl:

 

[rickthebrew]

there has been loads of posts on yeast starters, splitting yeasts and recovering yeast slurry - it would be great to see an authorative pictorial `how to` on these subjects we just need a jedi brewer to put it all into simple laymans terms

 

[luckyeddie]

there has been loads of posts on yeast starters, splitting yeasts and recovering yeast slurry - it would be great to see an authorative pictorial `how to` on these subjects we just need a jedi brewer to put it all into simple laymans terms

Thissety this.

I have just ordered a phial of WLP500 (thanks to the guys who pointed me in the right direction) because AG3 and AG4 are going to be a Dubbel and a Tripel. It won't be for a couple of weeks, because I'm probably going to do a Pedi clone this week and spend a few hours making Candi Sugar. Consequently, I need to learn how to propagate my yeasts and keep them happy. The best part of £6 for a one-shot yeast would not rest easy with the missus - I want to brew as tasty as Westvleteren, not as pricy as Westvleteren.

ANY information that saves me trawling the web for hours and sifting through the conflicting articles would be greatly appreciated.

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