Which acid?

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Oneflewover

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Morning all. I've been using CRS / AMS that I bought in 'bulk' quite some time ago, and have just used the last of it.

Now CRS is fine, but I'm looking to get more control over my liquor. I'm learning towards using phosphoric acid as I have quite hard water and want to keep any flavour imparted by the acid to a minimum.

Anyone got any alternative suggestions or pearls of wisdom? Cheers
 
I'm looking at switching from CRS to acid for better control. As I have a load of ingredients in stock at the moment, I was looking to get some acid on its own but can't seem to find phosphoric acid anywhere at a sensible price shipped, whereas lactic acid seems a bit easier to get (and is sold at my local HBS).

What sort of amount of lactic acid is likely to start imparting flavour? Worst case, I'd be adding about 10ml into a 20l batch based on Beersmith calcs.
 
I usually add between 5 to 6ml using the liquid form and about 175 grams of acid malt which I prefer to get a PH in the 5.2 to 5.4 range with my fairly hard water.
I do not taste any thing acidic in these amounts but do not forget it is like hops and bitterness perception what one person can taste may not be detectable by another
 
I would have though CRS was ideal, converting carbonates and bicarbonate to calcium sulphate and calcium chloride, both of which are important in English Ales. Personally, I use acidulated malt (lactic acid), but I don't need much as my water is very soft.
 
I also use lactic acid but not at the dose you’re suggesting so can’t advise from experience (I add 0.2ml/l).

In his article on water treatment Steve suggested up to 0.3ml/l as a maximum rate to avoid any flavour impact but this would fall short of your suggested dose. You’ll have to source an alternative or take a chance I guess.
 
Some have a very low lactic acid taste threshold. Others have no problems using lactic acid.
Only bad thing I heard about phosphoric acid is that calcium biphosphate is insoluble, so you will precipitate some calcium out. How significant this is I'm unsure.
I currently use concentrated HCl to reduce alkalinity in high Chloride water profiles, with CRS in balanced/ higher sulphate profiles.

In an ideal world I'll have sulphuric acid too which would give perfect control. Unfortunately one cannot really buy this in reasonable concentrations due to crime etc.
 
I would have though CRS was ideal, converting carbonates and bicarbonate to calcium sulphate and calcium chloride, both of which are important in English Ales. Personally, I use acidulated malt (lactic acid), but I don't need much as my water is very soft.
I wouldn't have thought you'd get much taste from using CRS.
 
Some have a very low lactic acid taste threshold. Others have no problems using lactic acid.
Only bad thing I heard about phosphoric acid is that calcium biphosphate is insoluble, so you will precipitate some calcium out. How significant this is I'm unsure.
I currently use concentrated HCl to reduce alkalinity in high Chloride water profiles, with CRS in balanced/ higher sulphate profiles.

In an ideal world I'll have sulphuric acid too which would give perfect control. Unfortunately one cannot really buy this in reasonable concentrations due to crime etc.
I understand that CRS contains equal parts of dilute sulphuric and hydrochloric acids. Seems ideal as that will give you twice as much calcium sulphate as calcium chloride. Perfic, I should say.
 
Just to add my dosage is for a 20-23 ltr brew which is within bounds of what HB is saying but 10ml I would think is too much and you would possibly get a acid taste from that plus it may be driving your PH too low.
I prefer to use Acidulated Malt as AA does and 175 g is enough in a 20-23ltr brew again no taste to me
 
I understand that CRS contains equal parts of dilute sulphuric and hydrochloric acids. Seems ideal as that will give you twice as much calcium sulphate as calcium chloride. Perfic, I should say.
Indeed it's ideal, unless you are brewing a NEIPA or similar where you want mega chloride.

I'm just planning a saison too, and struggling to keep the ion levels low enough using CRS in London water.
Need to resort to tesco Ashbeck for this one!
 
Hmm, interesting.

My alkalinity is around 80 here so it's taking quite a bit of CRS to get down to sensible numbers on pale beers. I'm also not sure of the exact composition of my CRS but I don't seem to ever get my mash pH low enough based on my calculations.

Perhaps I'll go bolder on the CRS and wait until I'm ready to order some other things before getting phosphoric acid.
 
Only bad thing I heard about phosphoric acid is that calcium biphosphate is insoluble, so you will precipitate some calcium out. How significant this is I'm unsure.

I found this thread where someone wrote convincingly and with conviction that this wouldn't be an issue. But it's the internet so who knows!

Phosphoric acid drawbacks?
 
I found this thread where someone wrote convincingly and with conviction that this wouldn't be an issue. But it's the internet so who knows!

Phosphoric acid drawbacks?
A cursory glance at the link and other threads on that forum leads me to agree, using phosphoric put a ceiling on the level of calcium in solution, but which is way higher than you'd ever want in brewing water anyway. Use as much as you need then!
 
I'll get some phosphoric then. In the meantime, I'll see if I can decipher what's in my CRS and in what proportions.
 

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I have read that phosphoric can make calcium precipitate out; so if you go that way then it might be wise to get one of the Salifert 'Ca' tests and see what effect it's having.
Personally I am grateful for CRS, in the way that it boosts my sulphate and chloride without further increasing my already very high calcium.
For what it's worth, I like to dilute my water 50/50 with RO and then use a mixture of Lactic and CRS.
 

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