Wheat vs wheat malt

[user 17085]

The chicken shed.... Is that the wrong answer.

Animal feed, aka food given to animals.

 

[MashBag]

" animal feed" (aka stock) is a grade of wheat.

And is isn't, its prime skyfall milling wheat.

 

[crescent city Mike]

I started using raw wheat in Belgian beers many years ago. I don't think I'll ever go back to flaked wheat. The raw stuff is more "wheaty". It doesn't crush the same as any other grain that's malted; it just flattens out between the rollers. I've used it in beers up to 50% but I have to run in through my old Corona corn mill. There's no need for a cereal mash as it will gelatinize at normal mashing temps. I use raw wheat in Saisons, Wits, and even American Wheat Ales.

 

[MashBag]

I agree.
Gelatinizing is only a problem when the grist is low on malt or low on water.

I used a posh flour mill wide open & got a smashing result. Understand you using a corona.

So do you have a protein rest?

 

[crescent city Mike]

I don't always use a protein rest. It depends on the amount of wheat in the grist bill. I once made a Brown Porter with 100% wheat. (I got 46/50 in a local competion with that beer). I recently made a Dutch Koyt with 50% malted oats. The oat malt is skinny and I had to run it through the Corona mill. The rest of the grist went through the roller mill. Both of those beers required a protein rest.

I also have developed a recipe for an American Wheat Ale using 40% malted wheat and 7.5% raw wheat. The raw wheat gives it a "snap" that I can't get from any other ingredient.

 

[peterpiper]

I like the following chart. I do away with adding malt for a cereal mash, and just boil the grain on it's own (usually rice).

Temperature ranges for the gelatinization of various starches [Briggs, 2004]. Starches marked with (*) also benefit from boiling before being used in the mash.

View attachment 91165

Gelatinization temperature chart looks usefull.
But I'm a little confused just what that means. What's the difference between gelatinization & boiling (to explode the grain), and which do you need before saccharification?

 

[crescent city Mike]

If you're using a grain which has a high gelatinization temp, you'll have to heat it seperately. The enzymes in the mash might not degrade the components in the odd grain at normal mash temps.
For instance, wheat will gelate at normal mash temps while maize and rice won't.

 

[user 17085]

What's the difference between gelatinization & boiling (to explode the grain), and which do you need before saccharification?

There's a subtle difference, as there is actually three stages.

1) Gelatinisation - The swelling of insoluble starch.
2) Liquefaction - Turning starch into its soluble form.
3) Saccharification - Breaking down soluble starch into sugars.

So, Gelatinisation is what it is. Boiling is gelatinisation and liquefaction, for example, if you boiled spuds for long enough you'd end up with a starchy mush. Then mashing is all three, providing as above, gelatinisation temperature is reached. The advantage of boiling or cereal mashing is, starch is added to the mash avoiding Gelatinisation in the mash, which might be handy if its being recirculated, or to ensure all three stages are completed within a time frame.

 

[user 17085]

Here's an interest point from The Mad Fermentationist, regarding why you might want to cereal mash or boil grains with a low gelatinisation temperature, such as raw wheat.

"Some brewers point out that for many grains the gelatinization temperature (that is the temperature at which the starches burst and become accessible to enzymes) is within the saccharification range. While this is true, that is the temperature required for the pure starch to gelatinize, more heat/time is required when the starch is constrained by proteins. This is the reason why you can thicken a sauce with corn starch without bringing it to a boil, but a flour thickened sauce requires a few minutes at a boil to fully thicken."

https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2011/09/homebrewing-with-local-ingredients.html?m=1

 

[MashBag]

Results are in (the glass). Ground and lobbed in seems to have worked out fine. Very clear, good head. V pleased.