What's the difference if any EKG Goldings Styrian etc

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mitch

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Ok Oh wise ones...

Just prepping up for a Greg Hughes recipe for tomorrow. I'm still new in the game at AG however I've tried to self help but i cant really find out if there's a difference a huge difference or nothing really between each of the Goldings hops naming conventions.

If anyone can put me right Id appreciate it.

I'm intent on doing the GH recipe for Belgian Blonde Ale which requires EKG & Styrian. I've got the EKG and will be subbing the other for Fuggles.

Am I a buffoon?
 
No you will be ok using Fuggles to replace Styrian although not exactly the same if I was to say to you that Styrian has been known by some brewers as Slovenian Fuggles that should give you a idea they are a suitable replacement or just use all EKG if you want
 
Ok Oh wise ones...

Just prepping up for a Greg Hughes recipe for tomorrow. I'm still new in the game at AG however I've tried to self help but i cant really find out if there's a difference a huge difference or nothing really between each of the Goldings hops naming conventions.

If anyone can put me right Id appreciate it.

I'm intent on doing the GH recipe for Belgian Blonde Ale which requires EKG & Styrian. I've got the EKG and will be subbing the other for Fuggles.

Am I a buffoon?
Use EKG for both
 
Well, if the question is, are EKG and Styrian Goldings near enough the same thing, I think the answer is no. But as said upthread, you could swap the Styrian out for Fuggles, or if you used all EKG, that would be fine too, but not quite the same.
 
Depends when the Styrian and EKG are added. I find them quite different and also both different to fuggles. If I recall the GH blonde calls for Styrian as late hop 10m and 0m additions? In that case, probably best subbing in EKG for late additions rather than fuggles.
 
The story goes (in some quarters) that the English dupped the Continentals into taking cheaper "Fuggles" instead of "Goldings". Most likely nonsense. The Continentals resorted to their growing practices of growing "seedless" (weed out the male plants) and succeeded in producing a hop with characters to rival any Golding.

"Goldings" is really a hotch-potch of early White-bine varieties that are clumped together under a collective name. Presently the "East-Kent" ("EKG") varieties are considered best but once there was "Farnham White Bine" (from Sussex!) which is becoming popular again. You can also get "Cobb's Goldings" now.
 
Well, if the question is, are EKG and Styrian Goldings near enough the same thing, I think the answer is no. But as said upthread, you could swap the Styrian out for Fuggles, or if you used all EKG, that would be fine too, but not quite the same.
i subbed the ekg for fuggles. im happy with the colour thats for sure
 

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The story goes (in some quarters) that the English dupped the Continentals into taking cheaper "Fuggles" instead of "Goldings". Most likely nonsense. The Continentals resorted to their growing practices of growing "seedless" (weed out the male plants) and succeeded in producing a hop with characters to rival any Golding.

"Goldings" is really a hotch-potch of early White-bine varieties that are clumped together under a collective name. Presently the "East-Kent" ("EKG") varieties are considered best but once there was "Farnham White Bine" (from Sussex!) which is becoming popular again. You can also get "Cobb's Goldings" now.

In my attempt to cut down food miles in my beer I must buy some of the Hampton Estate Fuggles. I contacted the estate but they don't sell to homebrewers anymore but do so through The Home Brew Shop. Still may visit the estate during harvest for a nose.

I think Hogs Back grow the Farnham Whites themselves and I haven't seen these available to either homebrewer or commercial.
 
I'm intent on doing the GH recipe for Belgian Blonde Ale which requires EKG & Styrian. I've got the EKG and will be subbing the other for Fuggles.

Am I a buffoon?

Not a buffoon at all - and to be honest, Belgian blondes aren't that hoppy so any British or European hops would be fine.

But the whole Goldings thing gets really complicated once you look into it. Going way back in time, hops were only known by the shape of their cones and the colour of the stem. By the early 1700s Surrey had developed a reputation for the quality of its pale-stemmed hops, and from one of these a selection was made in 1750 to give the Farnham Whitebine. These pale-stemmed hops also spread to Kent and although it's a bit murky, the Canterbury Whitebine probably represents an independent selection of the original pale-stemmed hops, so a sister to the Farnham Whitebine.

Around 1790 a Mr Golding from Malling (although we don't know much more about him surprisingly) made a selection of the Canterbury Whitebine which had larger cones that hang more singly. This "Canterbury Golding" became the progenitor of a whole family of different clones, like Cobb's and Amos Early Bird, with slightly different ripening times and vigour.

The Mathon or Mathon Whitebine of Herefordshire is also related to this lot somehow, although I don't think anyone's worked out exactly whether it's another selection of the original pale hops, or a bud sport of Farnham/Canterbury Whitebine or Goldings.

By the mid-19th century Kent with the help of Goldings and improved transport links had overtaken Farnham as the UK's premium hopgrowing area, and an outbreak of downy mildew in the 1920s pretty much ended hopgrowing in Farnham although it did limp on until the 1970s and has since been revived by Hog's Back.

It's worth noting that there is no such variety as East Kent Goldings, it means nothing from a botanical point of view. Instead, it is a protected geographical indication like Champagne and Jersey Royal potatoes, only one of the Goldings family grown in East Kent (or more precisely, east of the M20 and south of the Sheppey road) that passes certain chemical tests, can be marketed as EKG. Hereford is now trying to get a similar protection for their Goldings.

Goldings shared the same problem as Champagne, that they became such a benchmark for quality that the name was "borrowed" by other producers trying to benefit from the brand. So when the Fuggle brothers started selling their new hop in 1871, it was referred to as Fuggle's Golding. But as hopgrowing became more scientific at the start of the 20th century and the significant chemical differences between the new hop and members of the Golding family became more apparent, it became known simply as Fuggle. As it happens, recent genetic research suggests that Fuggle does have some Golding parentage, it's maybe a daughter or granddaughter of a Golding.

Whilst we're on the subject, Whitbread Golding Variety (WGV) was bred in 1911 from the open pollination of Bate’s Brewer, an old variety which seems to have been lost but which was not a Golding. So WGV is not a Golding either, but like Golding it differs from Fuggle in have little farnesene and British growers at the time had a mentality of "if it's not a Fuggle it must be a Golding".

Anyway, in 1886 Fuggle was still known as Fuggle's Golding, so that was the name under which it was taken to the Savinja Valley in what is now Slovenia by Janez Hausenbichler. Since the Slovenians thought they were growing a Golding, it became known locally as Savinjski Golding, and it was the only variety grown in the valley until the 1960s. But when it came to exports, Savinjski Golding was a bit of a mouthful so by the 1930s it was being exported under then name of Styrian Golding, although Styria is an old region that now finds itself in both Slovenia and Austria.

To further complicate things, when the Slovenians started breeding new varieties like Celeia, they all got sold under the name "Styrian Golding" - which would be like us selling Challenger, Target etc under the name "English Golding". That should no longer happen, in the EU at least (IIRC there was a bit of aggro from Austria about the name Styrian), they should be sold only as single varieties such as Celeia and Savinjski Golding, but you will see Styrian Golding in old recipes.

And just to complete things, Willamette is a triploid version of Fuggle, it has an extra set of chromosomes which make it sterile and a bit more vigorous. But although Willamette, Fuggle and Savinjski Golding are genetically essentially the same, the fact that they are typically grown in very different climates mean that they taste different. The cloudy maritime climate of Kent tends to bring out the earthiness, but if you took Fuggle to Slovenia or the US it would have brighter citrus flavours like Willamette and Savinjski.
 
Not a buffoon at all - and to be honest, Belgian blondes aren't that hoppy so any British or European hops would be fine.

But the whole Goldings thing gets really complicated once you look into it. Going way back in time, hops were only known by the shape of their cones and the colour of the stem. By the early 1700s Surrey had developed a reputation for the quality of its pale-stemmed hops, and from one of these a selection was made in 1750 to give the Farnham Whitebine. These pale-stemmed hops also spread to Kent and although it's a bit murky, the Canterbury Whitebine probably represents an independent selection of the original pale-stemmed hops, so a sister to the Farnham Whitebine.

Around 1790 a Mr Golding from Malling (although we don't know much more about him surprisingly) made a selection of the Canterbury Whitebine which had larger cones that hang more singly. This "Canterbury Golding" became the progenitor of a whole family of different clones, like Cobb's and Amos Early Bird, with slightly different ripening times and vigour.

The Mathon or Mathon Whitebine of Herefordshire is also related to this lot somehow, although I don't think anyone's worked out exactly whether it's another selection of the original pale hops, or a bud sport of Farnham/Canterbury Whitebine or Goldings.

By the mid-19th century Kent with the help of Goldings and improved transport links had overtaken Farnham as the UK's premium hopgrowing area, and an outbreak of downy mildew in the 1920s pretty much ended hopgrowing in Farnham although it did limp on until the 1970s and has since been revived by Hog's Back.

It's worth noting that there is no such variety as East Kent Goldings, it means nothing from a botanical point of view. Instead, it is a protected geographical indication like Champagne and Jersey Royal potatoes, only one of the Goldings family grown in East Kent (or more precisely, east of the M20 and south of the Sheppey road) that passes certain chemical tests, can be marketed as EKG. Hereford is now trying to get a similar protection for their Goldings.

Goldings shared the same problem as Champagne, that they became such a benchmark for quality that the name was "borrowed" by other producers trying to benefit from the brand. So when the Fuggle brothers started selling their new hop in 1871, it was referred to as Fuggle's Golding. But as hopgrowing became more scientific at the start of the 20th century and the significant chemical differences between the new hop and members of the Golding family became more apparent, it became known simply as Fuggle. As it happens, recent genetic research suggests that Fuggle does have some Golding parentage, it's maybe a daughter or granddaughter of a Golding.

Whilst we're on the subject, Whitbread Golding Variety (WGV) was bred in 1911 from the open pollination of Bate’s Brewer, an old variety which seems to have been lost but which was not a Golding. So WGV is not a Golding either, but like Golding it differs from Fuggle in have little farnesene and British growers at the time had a mentality of "if it's not a Fuggle it must be a Golding".

Anyway, in 1886 Fuggle was still known as Fuggle's Golding, so that was the name under which it was taken to the Savinja Valley in what is now Slovenia by Janez Hausenbichler. Since the Slovenians thought they were growing a Golding, it became known locally as Savinjski Golding, and it was the only variety grown in the valley until the 1960s. But when it came to exports, Savinjski Golding was a bit of a mouthful so by the 1930s it was being exported under then name of Styrian Golding, although Styria is an old region that now finds itself in both Slovenia and Austria.

To further complicate things, when the Slovenians started breeding new varieties like Celeia, they all got sold under the name "Styrian Golding" - which would be like us selling Challenger, Target etc under the name "English Golding". That should no longer happen, in the EU at least (IIRC there was a bit of aggro from Austria about the name Styrian), they should be sold only as single varieties such as Celeia and Savinjski Golding, but you will see Styrian Golding in old recipes.

And just to complete things, Willamette is a triploid version of Fuggle, it has an extra set of chromosomes which make it sterile and a bit more vigorous. But although Willamette, Fuggle and Savinjski Golding are genetically essentially the same, the fact that they are typically grown in very different climates mean that they taste different. The cloudy maritime climate of Kent tends to bring out the earthiness, but if you took Fuggle to Slovenia or the US it would have brighter citrus flavours like Willamette and Savinjski.
Absolutely fascinating athumb..
 
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