Whats in my water?

[Wez]

Right it's the main ingredient in my beer so it's about time I tried to understand it and how to treat it.

My first problem is that my water supplier (Severn Trent) are useless as far as provding information goes, I have downloaded their documents from their web site, spoke to them and had infomation posted and also phoned and spoke to someone in a lab who arranged for more information to be posted. All the information they have given me is 1 year or more out of date and/or has missing bits of vital information. So time to do it myself.

AT suggested the following product :

http://www.swelluk.com/marine/marine-hy ... -6644.html

I'm thinking that I can test my water pre brew and adjust to how I want it based on the test results, does anyone have experience of using this or similar products.

Tubby_Shaw and I tried to use something at mine a while back to no avail, that though was due to too much beer and wine, all we succeded in doing was getting the instructions sodden wet through.

So, have we any users of that sort of thing, and how do you rate them?

Cheers, Wez

 

[markp]

Hi Wez,

I bought a Salifert kit a couple of weeks ago.
I'm very new to AG and to be honest I am still trying to get to grips with water treatment.

I have had a very similar experience to yours with my own water supplier.

The Salifert test kit is very easy to use and seems to produce accurate, repeatable results once you are familiar with the proceedure. There is a tendancy to overshoot the end point until you get used to the kit.

I'm glad I bought one, as I would have way over calculated the amount of CRS to use had I relied on the web report and the chat I had with the water boards laboratory.
For the cost of the kit, I'd say they are well worth the small investment to get an accurate alkalinty measure.

Now I just need to get my head around the rest :wha:
Aleman is being most patient with me :lol:
ATB

 

[Wez]

Thanks for the reply markp :thumb:

I think i'll get one ordered up, what could possibly go wrong :?

You'll get your head around it fast - but none of us ever will completely, i've not met a brewer yet who isn't learning, upgrading or trying something new. Thats why I think we all like it. :thumb:

 

[markp]

No probs Wez.

Like I say, I am very new to the AG side of this........but the kit is definately a useful tool IMHO.
My readings tell me that the alkalinity is the most important aspect when producing pales/bitters.....the salifert kit will almost ensure that this is reduced to the required level and that cannot be a bad thing for the inexperienced.....getting a key parameter right.

My first AG is on Sunday :pray: I'm planning to test the initial liquor, treat with CRS and then re-test to be sure.
I'm hoping that following that, all that is needed to produce decent beer is the addition of some gypsum to lower the mash pH.
We'll know on Sunday I suppose.

ATB

 

[Wez]

1st AG on Sunday! Nice one!

Sunday means that if you get stuck with anything you can post on the forum up talk to anyone who may be in chat :thumb:

I'm sure you'll have a great brew, remember that brewing is more forgiving than you think, take your time, if you are not ready to sparge when 90 mins is up let it sit for 100 mins till you are ready, that sort of thing.

If you do get to take pics of your first brew, we would love to see them!

Look forward to the brewday post

:thumb:

Wez

 

[markp]

I purposely chose a brewday when the chat room would be open :rofl:

I have a mixture of the fear and excitment about things.......but will be in no hurry for sure, and will certainly do some pictures.

 

[Wez]

Ah great :thumb:

When you do that brew, everything you have read about will just click into place :thumb:

 

[prolix]

I test my water and have gotten consistent results, the same as the water boards average result. Never seen their low or high but figured they would probably be after a lot of rain or in a drought period. Or it could be different bores.

As the test only takes 5 mins and makes me feel like a proper chemist, may have to get a lab coat to do it next time :grin: I will probably stop if the results carry on being the same.

 

[Aleman]

I will also be brewing on Sunday with a Live Video feed on my website . . . I will also be doing the water tests 'live' . . . Ooooooohhhhhhhh!

The Salifert Kit is great it does the job well, and is quick and simple, it is worth spending some time with the 'standard' solution supplied with the kit to understand where the end point is . . . although for people with a moderate or high amount of alkalinity this is likely to produce minor errors overall.

I also have the Salifert Calcium kit which again does what it says on the tin, and as these are the only two important factors in water treatment I am happy to use them.

The method I would use if I had more alkalinity in my liquor is as follows

Measure the alkalinity
Determine the volume of CRS to add, and add half this amount to the liquor
Stir well to disperse the CRS and the CO2 given off
Measure again and recalculate the final amount of CRS to add
Add the CRS, Stir, and as a check test again.

Once you get a handle on the colours of the end points its all fairly simples Tchk

While I know we don't want to divert people away from THBF I have posted a new version of my water treatment spreadsheet at UK homebrew (F0r members only I am afraid), but if one of the admin wants to download it and upload it to THBF thats fine with me)

 

[Frisp]

I have to say I never used a kit and managed to talk to some bod in the lab at Wessex water to get my water report. Using CRS in my brew... what a flippin revelation... My brew was nice pre water treatment, but after it. WOOO hooooo different brew.... ( hey that rhymed)

I must confess I have been to Jims and used the calculator there,and It does seem strange epsom salts into the HLT..... ( Is that what AT did to get his shitter bitter) , but Im not going back to using bottled vasser

 

[Aleman]

It does seem strange epsom salts into the HLT

I have a considerable chip on my shoulder with regard to the published water profiles . . . much of the additions are really pointless . . . Magnesium sulphate is not . . . magnesium is required as a cofactor for a lot of enzyme complexes but you rarely need to go much higher than 8mg/l . . . which I can get with 1g in 30 . . . The majority of hard water aeres have levels above this . . . so what is the need to go higher than this . . . none, with my incredibly low levels (1.4mg/l) then I like to add a tiny bit just to make sure, but there is probably more than enough coming from the malt anyway . . .



and you need to be in the tsp per pint range for its 'magic' action to take place

 

[Wez]

So is this kit:

Salifert Carbonate Hardness / Alkalinity Test Kit

and this kit:

Salifert Calcium Test Kit

The ones I need? Nothing else?

 

[Aleman]

:thumb:

 

[Wez]

OK luckily I have an aquatics centre on the way home from work, so I picked both kits up.

I've done each test twice with consistent results and now know the following about my tap water..

Calcium Concentration 75ppm
Carbonate Hardness (KH) 8.6dKH
Alkalinity 3.09meg/L

So, what does that mean to me in terms of how I need to treat my water for say brewing a pale ale?

 

[Aleman]

3.09 meq/l = 154.3 mg/l Alkalinity . . . You want around 25mg/l for pale ales so you need to remove 129.3 mg/l of alkalinity . . . 1ml/l of CRS removes 183 mg/l so you will need to use (129.3/183) 0.7 ml/L of CRS to get you alkalinity to the level you want (Treat all your liquor) so if you use 100l of liquor for a batch of been then add (100*129.3)/183 = 70ml of CRS . . . Which is quite a lot TBH at least it seems that way.

That will add 39.6 mg of sulphate and 63.3 Chloride as well

If you want to increase your calcium up to 150 mg/l you need to add 32g (to 100l) of calcium Sulphate (For a dry bitter result) or 27.5g of calcium chloride, for a soft rounded malty beer.

 

[Wez]

Thanks

How did you make the step from 3.09meg/L to 154.3mg/L Alkalinity (whats the calculation)?

I understand the CRS calcs


Could you explain calcium sulphate and calcium cholride (the differences and also what form they take as in what products from a HBS shelf)


:thumb:

 

[Aleman]

How did you make the step from 3.09meg/L to 154.3mg/L Alkalinity (whats the calculation)?

Alkalinity in meg/l multiplied by 50 gives the alkalinity as CaCO3 (in mg/l)

Could you explain calcium sulphate and calcium cholride (the differences and also what form they take as in what products from a HBS shelf)

Both add calcium which is good for beer generally and ideally try and get it to around 150mg/l

The choice of which calcium salt to use to boost the calcium depends on if you are trying to make a drier hoppier beer(sulphate) or a sweeter rounded maltier beer (chloride) . . . or a blend of the two to create a balanced beer.