What to brew with Cherry

[Fore]

First step complete. Plan is to use all in one 23l brew. From what I hear, best to avoid boiling as it has adverse effect on flavour. Recommended approach is to add a Camden tablet and leave overnight. Add to secondary. That's the plan anyway.

 

[Ajhutch]

Awesome! What beer did you decide on in the end? Many people recommend freezing the fruit first as it breaks down the cell membranes and releases flavour more readily. Camden tablet overnight after the frozen fruit defrosts is a good plan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fore]

Awesome! What beer did you decide on in the end? Many people recommend freezing the fruit first as it breaks down the cell membranes and releases flavour more readily. Camden tablet overnight after the frozen fruit defrosts is a good plan.

I'm going to go with the one in your link. Cheers for that again. Yes, steps now are to de-stone (I have a tool for that). Freeze. Then timing for addition to secondary... defrost, mash, campden tablet, then all in secondary.

P.S. Actually, I'm not sure I need to de-stone. It's not like I'm eating them in a pie or anything. What do you think?

 

[Ajhutch]

I'm going to go with the one in your link. Cheers for that again. Yes, steps now are to de-stone (I have a tool for that). Freeze. Then timing for addition to secondary... defrost, mash, campden tablet, then all in secondary.

P.S. Actually, I'm not sure I need to de-stone. It's not like I'm eating them in a pie or anything. What do you think?

I don't know. I'd do some googling about tannins in the stones.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[IainM]

I'm not sure I need to de-stone. It's not like I'm eating them in a pie or anything.

The Belgian breweries don't pit the cherries before using them, and most recipes I've seen include them.

 

[Fore]

The Belgian breweries don't pit the cherries before using them, and most recipes I've seen include them.

That will do me. Thanks. Saves some effort.

 

[Fore]

Throwing this one out there.... I have a Sous Vide machine, in which I often pasteurise food stuffs. For example, I bulk pasteurise eggs in advance of making ice cream, as it saves the faff of making a custard. So that got me thinking about these cherries. Would pasteurisation be a workable alternative to the Campden tablet? I did a quick check on line and only found recipes that were really for cooking the cherries, albeit at sub 100 degrees (low 80's). But I'm talking about 54.4 degrees for say 1h30m. That wouldn't upset the flavour too much. My questions is quite technical, as I would guess such pasteurisation is good enough to kill almost all baddies that would cause a bad stomach, but possibly nowhere near the level of sterilisation needed to prevent growth of nasties in my secondary. Anyone any idea if this would work?

 

[Ajhutch]

In GCSE biology I think we learnt that you need to sustain 63C to pasteurise. But that was a long time ago and I wasn't the smartest anyway!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fore]

In GCSE biology I think we learnt that you need to sustain 63C to pasteurise. But that was a long time ago and I wasn't the smartest anyway!

I think you are probably correct. I think 54.4C is specific to the pathogens in meat. Still, 63C shouldn't stew the cherries and could be a good way of ensuring they are sterile. I think I'll roll with that unless someone can offer a reason why it would be a bad idea.

 

[IainM]

I think you are probably correct. I think 54.4C is specific to the pathogens in meat. Still, 63C shouldn't stew the cherries and could be a good way of ensuring they are sterile. I think I'll roll with that unless someone can offer a reason why it would be a bad idea.

Hey Fore,
Here is the pasteurisation curve for brewing:

54C for 60 mins should cover it, but if you are planning to do 3kg of fruit then I'd use several vacuum packs and extend the time a bit to ensure that the all the fruit is within the lethal zone.

 

[Fore]

That's awesome. Didn't even know one existed for brewing. It seems I wasn't far out with my initial pasteurisation plan then. I prefer long and low, as that kills the baddies while not exposing the food to high heat. Looking at the chart, I think I'll stick to my original plan of 54.4C for at least 1h30 (with probably 2 or 3 pouches). With sous vide, there is little risk of overdoing things; not much will change in flavour between 1h30 & say 2h exposure.

Although I've yet to put this into practice, it seems like a great solution to ensure the fruit is sterile without stewing it.

 

[Fore]

So it's taken me some time to get round to this, but finally it's on track.

Last weekend I did the brew, my first with wheat, using WB-06 from a starter. It was 2890g Pils, 2505g malted wheat, 22g callenger at start of boil. I suffered a bit on my efficiency, which I learn often happens with wheat.

This weekend I already defrosted the cherries, mashed them up a bit, and stirred in a crushed campden tablet. Now in the fridge until tomorrow. Tomorrow I'll rack the fermenting brew on top of the mashed and sterilised cherries.

The cherry liquid is not at all red; it looks more beer colour, not that dissimilar to the wheat beer that it will be part of. So I guess I'm not going to get any red touch in my final brew. I hope the cherry flavour comes through at least. It's possible the cherries weren't ripe enough, or maybe it's oxidation. I'm sure this will raise some gasps, but what are your thoughts on adding a bit of red food colour?

I'll keep you updated. If it comes out really well, it will be just about in time for the next harvest, and I'll try to get to #2 a little quicker than I did #1. Since this first attempt I've learnt I need a lot more cherries than the ~2.3 kg I used this time round; more like 5-7 kg in a 23l brew. I do have a free supply, so no problem upping the cherry content this year.

 

[Fore]

Wheat beer, soon to be cherry wheat, and cider...

 

[BeerCat]

Wheat beer, soon to be cherry wheat, and cider...

View attachment 12815

Are they fermonsters you are using there?

 

[Fore]

Are they fermonsters you are using there?

No not a fermonster. I was about to say same sort of thing, but I guess that depends on the material. I just picked them up from the local store. I've been in a few shops and they often seem to have this type. I have a feeling that they are primarily intended for wine, but I always wanted a clear fermenter with a screw lid, so these fit the bill. From memory, they were 24 pounds each with tap, so quite a bit more than a standard bucket, but a lot less than a fermonster. I always cover them with a black bag.

 

[Fore]

I just found a link...
https://www.balliihoo.co.uk/clear-plastic-fermenter-with-tap-275-litres-p-1162.html

 

[Fore]

1 week in secondary.

 

[Fore]

Sample tried. Sits at 1.006, which is a bit of a surprise, as the mash temp was 67. With the wort alone, that would make it a 5.4% ABV. I guess it's about 6% then; difficult to know exactly what the cherries brought. The alcohol comes through too clearly in the sample.

I'm no expert on wheat beer, but I understand I should expect a lemony zesty bite. That does come through. All in all, as it stands right now, that bite is a little strong. Not sure how much of that is the yeast (WB-06), how much is the cherries, and how much is the hops. Maybe it's right on style, I just don't know.

Colour wise, as expected, the cherries didn't bring much. Maybe there is a slight pink hase to this light coloured beer.

And I can't pick out any cherry flavour at all. I tried a bit of the cherry juice when I added it, and it tasted more like apricot jam to me. Maybe I can taste a bit of that, but very weak. It's nothing at all like the cherry Kriek to which I'm familiar (which is probably just added concentrate, and not what I was aiming for anyway).

So it might sound like a let down, but I'm not seeing it like that. I'm pretty sure all the aspects which are too sharp right now will settle down very well with a little ageing. Unlike many of the beers I brew, this one will have to sit some time.

 

[Fore]

So finally, long in the planning, here it is. Pretty much nothing from the cherries, colour or flavour, which was sort of the purpose of this thread. I think this simply turned into my first AG wheat beer. It's much better than I was expecting though. The strong alcohol that came through in the sample has completely gone. The zest is still there but reduced. Mine is not as good as some commercial offerings I've tried in the bottle and on tap recently, but it is my first, and not far off.

There could possibly be some flavour profile from the cherries, but what really comes through is the simple difference between wheat and barley. Zesty, grassy, watery but not with lack of flavour. I think my preference for some of the commercial beers I tried recently was probably choice of hops and perhaps some added spices.

It's not a style I would turn to frequently, but that's just a preference thing. For me this is about the most refreshing beer style available, more refreshing than lager/pils. Best served highly chilled at the BBQ in super hot weather.

Will try again with a larger volume of more ripe cherries.

 

[Oneiroi]

A completely different use for cherries but Jamil Zainasheff's Black Forest Stout is on my list to brew at some point, got fairly good reviews and is supposed to be quite balanced (i.e not too sweet or OTT chocolately). Might be one to consider for your next harvest:cheers7: