What do we think about the whole independence thing in general?

[TonyT]

If Nicola does well at the coming elections she will force a referendum. Boris will try to win support with promises of billions but why should the Scots believe him.
Wales will not vote for independence as they are too small a state.
NI is a problem that no one wants, the Republic don't want a United Ireland and a referendum would reject it too.

I don’t think that Wales would vote for independence because there’s not the stomach for it. Yet. I think if Scotland go for it and seem to be making a success of it then that would alter significantly. I don’t think that the size of the country matters as there are are many example of countries with populations as small or smaller than Wales who are surviving just fine. Take the Baltic states for example, and look who they’ve got for a next door neighbour!

 

[JeffDragon7]

I guess the only questions that matter
can they support themselves independently
will they have their own currency and how does that work.
on the EU front I doubt the EU would be interested, as they want countries that add funds rather than require them.
at the end of the day if a country can support itself financially then nothing stopping then prospering as an independent country.
I heard that Sturgeon was backing away from pushing for a referendum at the moment.

 

[moto748]

Adam Price has said that he wants to make politics honest. .

I make no comment about Adam Price, but, tbf, every huckster since time immemorial has said that!

Didn't a certain D. Trump say much the same?

As for Scotland, my two-penn'orth is, I can't how thew hell Scottish independence would work, esp now we have left the EU. If the Ulster border is a problem, imagine the Scottish border, which sees far more traffic. IF| we were both stillin the EU....

Scotland would need an open, France/Belgium style border. And the trade deals and agreements that go with that. I think the Scots hope that the EU would look favourably on them. That may not be the case, and Spain will not want any self-determination encouragement for Catalonia.

But, and here's the kicker: if I were Scots, I would vote for independence in a heart-beat!

 

[pilgrimhudd]

But, and here's the kicker: if I were Scots, I would vote for independence in a heart-beat!

As would i, even though i think it would make us all poorer, less safe etc etc.

 

[The Baron]

I live there - that’s enough factual evidence, surely?

I thought you lived in Walkabout Creek and was married to Linda Kozlowski

 

[Polcho]

Given your use of "China Virus", you'll forgive me for thinking you'd be all for walls and division.

I forgive you, perhaps that’s not the right word for it, but I still use German measles, Spanish flu, Lyme disease and the like.

 

[Brew_DD2]

I forgive you, perhaps that’s not the right word for it, but I still use German measles, Spanish flu, Lyme disease and the like.

You know exactly what you were doing. There is only one type of person that calls it the China Virus and it's not the sort of person I wish to interact with, online or otherwise.

 

[reddibaggie]

I’m an veteran and I joined up to serve Queen and country. I served with soldiers from all over the union and commonwealth. I love my whole country and it breaks my heart to see the way it’s going.

 

[Random Badger]

I’m an veteran and I joined up to serve Queen and country. I served with soldiers from all over the union and commonwealth. I love my whole country and it breaks my heart to see the way it’s going.

That needs some context!

Depending on viewpoint it could mean:

1) Horrible right wing lying Tory government, stupid xenophobic Brexit, young people face a worse future than previous generations, climate change deniers!

2) Woke lefty liberal madness, can't call a spade a spade anymore, too many immigrants, young people have it too easy, sick of hearing about climate change!

3) A mix of the above or something completely different.

 

[moto748]

The better question might be, to what extent was Brexit predicated on the break-up of the UK, considering it was always clear that Scotland would vote Remain by a considerable margin?

But I suspect, much like the Irish border, it's unlikely to have dominated our thoughts when we voted in the referendum.

 

[Polcho]

What else did the Romans give us

 

[Random Badger]

The better question might be, to what extent was Brexit predicated on the break-up of the UK, considering it was always clear that Scotland would vote Remain by a considerable margin?

But I suspect, much like the Irish border, it's unlikely to have dominated our thoughts when we voted in the referendum.

Back in 2016 concerns about Brexit leading to problems in NI and hastening the break up of the UK were certainly raised by remainers, but were dismissed as project fear. Three years later a June 2019 poll of Conservative party members revealed that:

"Conservative members would rather break up the United Kingdom, and destroy their own party, than stay in the European Union, according to a new poll.

The latest YouGov poll of Conservative party members, who will soon be charged with choosing the UK's next prime minister, suggests they would opt to see both Scotland and Northern Ireland leave the UK, if it was the only way to ensure the UK leaves the EU.

Sixty three per cent say they would rather Scotland left the UK if it secured Brexit, with 61% willing to accept "significant damage" to the economy and 59% willing to see Northern Ireland leave the UK."

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...mpaign=conservative_members_june_2019_mindset
It seems to be less that people were unaware and more that that didn't/don't care about the union of the UK compared to sticking up two fingers to our European neighbours. Hence why a deal was done that included provisions previously believed unthinkable for a UK prime minister in respect of Northern Ireland. A somewhat ironic position for members of an organisation with the full name of "Conservative and Unionist Party".

 

[GhostShip]

As I see it, Scotland campaigned for a referendum and got a 'once in a generation' referendum in 2014. However, because the result didn't go their way, rather than accept democracy the SNP have banged on about nothing but independence ever since. I'm sure SNP supporters probably welcome it, but what about the majority of Scots who voted to remain in the UK? The actions of the SNP are a daily slap in the face for every single one of those people.

 

[moto748]

You could just as well argue that it's a slap in the face of Scotland to take it out of the EU, when Scots voted Remain. How democratic is that?

 

[moto748]

with 61% willing to accept "significant damage" to the economy and 59% willing to see Northern Ireland leave the UK."

Given, of course, that that 'significant damage' only affects other people, and not themselves. Otherwise they'll be up in arms like the fisherman who discovered you can't have the moon on a stick.

 

[Brew_DD2]

As I see it, Scotland campaigned for a referendum and got a 'once in a generation' referendum in 2014. However, because the result didn't go their way, rather than accept democracy the SNP have banged on about nothing but independence ever since. I'm sure SNP supporters probably welcome it, but what about the majority of Scots who voted to remain in the UK? The actions of the SNP are a daily slap in the face for every single one of those people.

And yet they still keep being voted in on that mandate. Democracy isn't static, and issues don't just go away.

The once in a generation thing has been done to death, and it was no more than a turn of phrase to illustrate the magnitude of the vote. The Edinburgh Agreement was quite clear that there was no fixed time period required until another vote could be called.

 

[Random Badger]

As I see it, Scotland campaigned for a referendum and got a 'once in a generation' referendum in 2014. However, because the result didn't go their way, rather than accept democracy the SNP have banged on about nothing but independence ever since. I'm sure SNP supporters probably welcome it, but what about the majority of Scots who voted to remain in the UK? The actions of the SNP are a daily slap in the face for every single one of those people.

I've already stated that I'm not in favour of breaking up the UK. However, it cannot be denied that the government message in 2014 was Vote No to Scottish independence to stay in the EU. The subsequent Brexit referendum result meant that England effectively decided to take Scotland (and NI and Gibraltar) out of the EU against their will. So it is understandable why some people might think this means the issue should be revisited a lot sooner than would otherwise been the case. It's not as though getting Boris as PM in Westminster and the Brexit deal he has now delivered have exactly helped matters North of the border!

 

[TonyT]

As I see it, Scotland campaigned for a referendum and got a 'once in a generation' referendum in 2014. However, because the result didn't go their way, rather than accept democracy the SNP have banged on about nothing but independence ever since. I'm sure SNP supporters probably welcome it, but what about the majority of Scots who voted to remain in the UK? The actions of the SNP are a daily slap in the face for every single one of those people.

Democracy doesn’t mean that if a decision is made that you’re not happy with, you have to sit in the corner and be quiet. As Brew-DD2 said, it isn’t static, people die and people change their mind. As that well known Brexit minister, David Davies said “If a democracy cannot change it‘s mind, it ceases to be a democracy “

 

[GhostShip]

You could just as well argue that it's a slap in the face of Scotland to take it out of the EU, when Scots voted Remain. How democratic is that?

It was a UK vote. London voted to remain, so did a couple of roads in my village - if you start drawing lines, you’ll never stop.

 

[MickDundee]

It was a UK vote. London voted to remain, so did a couple of roads in my village - if you start drawing lines, you’ll never stop.

London, and “a couple of roads in my village” have never been countries though.

Which Euro 2020 group is London in? When is Chapel Mews joining the 6 nations?