Wet to dry yeast alternative chart

[Hoddy]

Hey all, so the question is.

Do we know of, or have a reliable source of where we know when a wet yeast has a direct and relatable dry alternative.
i.e

WLP001 has a dry equivalent of Safale US05.

And so on.

but what about the wet yeast Wyeast London Ale III what is the dry alternative?

And what is the wet alternative to the dry Notting ale yeast?

interested if we can build up a good picture of this to help people choose the right wet/dry yeast alternatives.

 

[JonBrew]

Great idea. Couple of sources as a starting point. The first one is particularly good. I reckon with input from the forum these could be built upon.

https://www.saltcitybrewsupply.com/media/YeastComparison3.pdf

https://www.homebrewsupply.com/learn/yeast-comparison-charts.html

 

[foxbat]

If you can find it on this family tree chart then it's definitive since this is based on DNA sequencing. Not so many dry yeasts in there but I do see popular ones including US05, S-04, Nottingham:

http://beer.suregork.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Brewing_yeast_family_tree_nov_2018_v11.pdf

For example US-05 is down the bottom and you can see its close relations. S-04 and Nottingham on the far right.

 

[Hoddy]

This is a great start. But it does show what I thought that actually there is very little Dry to Wet yeast conversion information.

Let’s see what more people can turn up or share.

 

[chrisb8]

The Greg Hughes book has a table with suggestions of yeasts for the recipes in the book including liquid and dry alternatives.

 

[foxy]

I have just recently been reading an article where researchers from Rochester University have been tracing the genomes of both ale and lager yeast, they believe that the European grape wine yeast and Asian rice wine yeast interbred somewhere along the Silk Road, to give us the yeast most commonly used today. They have sequenced the genomes of 47 yeast strains, plus genomes of yeast which seem to be no longer in existence.
Sorry Hoddy just a snippet of information, the family tree foxbat put up is probably the best starting point.

 

[MyQul]

I have just recently been reading an article where researchers from Rochester University have been tracing the genomes of both ale and lager yeast, they believe that the European grape wine yeast and Asian rice wine yeast interbred somewhere along the Silk Road, to give us the yeast most commonly used today. They have sequenced the genomes of 47 yeast strains, plus genomes of yeast which seem to be no longer in existence.
Sorry Hoddy just a snippet of information, the family tree foxbat put up is probably the best starting point.

You can imagine, way back when, one day a European grape yeast meeting an Asian rice wine yeast on the silk road, and getting it on in a tent, to produce baby ale and lager yeasts

 

[Hoddy]

The Greg Hughes book has a table with suggestions of yeasts for the recipes in the book including liquid and dry alternatives.

Come on then, please share.

 

[BrewsWayne]

Here is a thread with some tables and links to the latest information on this topic
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/dry-yeasts-identified-your-opinions-please.670466/

 

[An Ankoù]

It would be nice to know where these dry yeasts originate. For example, I gather that MJ M42 is a Whitbread strain. It's quickly becoming my go to yeast for bitters, pales and stouts, but I'd like to know a bit more about it.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/mangrove-jacks-yeasts-review-m15-m36-m42-m44-m54.645584/ gives some ideas

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/mangrove-jacks-yeasts-review-m15-m36-m42-m44-m54.645584/
Seems a bit more useful, but how accurate is it?

 

[foxy]

It would be nice to know where these dry yeasts originate. For example, I gather that MJ M42 is a Whitbread strain. It's quickly becoming my go to yeast for bitters, pales and stouts, but I'd like to know a bit more about it.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/mangrove-jacks-yeasts-review-m15-m36-m42-m44-m54.645584/ gives some ideas

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/mangrove-jacks-yeasts-review-m15-m36-m42-m44-m54.645584/
Seems a bit more useful, but how accurate is it?

I think the Mangrove Jack products are re labeled, the company who made the Grainfather and Mangrove Jack were getting yeast and malts packaged under the banner of Mangrove Jack, amalgamated or took over the company doing the repackaging SPL International and are now Bevie Co
they may be making their own products now I don't know.
http://spl.bevie.co/about-us/

 

[JonBrew]

Here is a thread with some tables and links to the latest information on this topic
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/dry-yeasts-identified-your-opinions-please.670466/

Great thread.

 

[Oneflewover]

Great thread.

Is that @davidfromUS posting as davidabcd on there??? Bike certainly looks familiar!

 

[Rodcx500z]

I have a a little booklet on mangrove jacks yeast given to me by the hbs I use, it gives a very good description of all their yeasts and uses, I can,t upload a pic for what ever reasons but it is very good

 

[Argentum]

Hey all, so the question is.

Do we know of, or have a reliable source of where we know when a wet yeast has a direct and relatable dry alternative.

The simple answer to "direct and reliable" is "no". It doesn't even seem to hold true for your example of WLP001 and US05, as when Brulosophy brewed a split batch using both of these, the testers could readily tell that there was a difference. The beer fermented with WLP001 was clean, and the beer fermented with US05 was a tad spicy when tasted side by side with it.

 

[DavidDetroit]

Is that @davidfromUS posting as davidabcd on there??? Bike certainly looks familiar!

Yeah, that's me.

 

[trueblue]

The simple answer to "direct and reliable" is "no". It doesn't even seem to hold true for your example of WLP001 and US05, as when Brulosophy brewed a split batch using both of these, the testers could readily tell that there was a difference. The beer fermented with WLP001 was clean, and the beer fermented with US05 was a tad spicy when tasted side by side with it.

Just because two yeast may have a shared heritage does not mean they will act the same or produce similar beers. The drying process will have an effect on the yeast and the liquid yeast we buy will probably have been modified in the laboratory for handling or commercial reasons. There is a reason the better commercial brewery's run their own labs to maintain their own strains.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Do we know of, or have a reliable source of where we know when a wet yeast has a direct and relatable dry alternative.
i.e

WLP001 has a dry equivalent of Safale US05.

And so on.

As has been mentioned, even the cases where there is a "direct" equivalent, there's often subtle mutations between one source and another (heck, people have found genetic and brewing differences between WLP001 and Wyeast 1056), and the stress of drying means that the first generation of a dried yeast can do some slightly funny things.

And not all yeast cope well with being dried (Conan/New England is a recent example), and it takes investment in development to launch a dried strain, so there are many fewer dried strains (although they get rebadged a lot), so there is no dry equivalent for the majority of liquid strains.

but what about the wet yeast Wyeast London Ale III what is the dry alternative?

And what is the wet alternative to the dry Notting ale yeast?

There's no dry equivalent to London Ale III at present - but <cough> Lallemand may have some good news for you on that front very shortly....

WLP039 East Midlands is the closest genetically to Nottingham, it's a rare Vault strain that as it happens is meant to be a 2019Q4 seasonal release.