Well said that man.

[Chippy_Tea]

.

 

[terrym]

Winston might have suggested this to our EU 'partners'

 

[geetee]

The biggest problem with this is the press, Daily Mail et al, are flying a kite once again to vilify the EU

For any contact you sign there will be terms and conditions and so far the EU have only said that Britain has to fulfill it's obligations, they have never quoted figures however the Tories and the DM are quick to say " we will NOT pay ��£100 million" to make themselves look big and teh EU look like predators. the UK has to pay pensions, wages, on going expenses for all of the policies that they agreed to fund, legally they have no option, same as your mobile phone, you cancel it you still have to pay.

It defies logic that Mrs May who called an election purely and simply to strengthen her majority on the basis of Brexit is now crowing that the EU is "interfering" in the UK election. It is no such thing, the EU are trying to set the agenda for the upcoming Brexit talks regardless of the election which they have said will make NO difference to the talks.

Don't be fooled by the numbers bandied about , it is designed to make David Davis look like Davis versus Goliath by standing up to the bully. We will have to pay a reasonable amount but only with agreement, more scaremongering by the anti EU brigade in the media ( and of course the Tories).

You may as well believe Diane Abbott's numbers if you believe the Daily Mail's take on this one!

 

[MyQul]

The biggest problem with this is the press, Daily Mail et al, are flying a kite once again to vilify the EU

For any contact you sign there will be terms and conditions and so far the EU have only said that Britain has to fulfill it's obligations, they have never quoted figures however the Tories and the DM are quick to say " we will NOT pay ���£100 million" to make themselves look big and teh EU look like predators. the UK has to pay pensions, wages, on going expenses for all of the policies that they agreed to fund, legally they have no option, same as your mobile phone, you cancel it you still have to pay.

It defies logic that Mrs May who called an election purely and simply to strengthen her majority on the basis of Brexit is now crowing that the EU is "interfering" in the UK election. It is no such thing, the EU are trying to set the agenda for the upcoming Brexit talks regardless of the election which they have said will make NO difference to the talks.

Don't be fooled by the numbers bandied about , it is designed to make David Davis look like Davis versus Goliath by standing up to the bully. We will have to pay a reasonable amount but only with agreement, more scaremongering by the anti EU brigade in the media ( and of course the Tories).

You may as well believe Diane Abbott's numbers if you believe the Daily Mail's take on this one!

Thanks for the explanation of why the UK have to pay money to the EU when they leave. Of course you never hear why we need to pay them some money in the papers. I alway wondered why the UK need to pay money to the EU. I could of course do a bit of googling as to find out why but havent got around to doing it

 

[Covrich]

Thanks for the explanation of why the UK have to pay money to the EU when they leave. Of course you never hear why we need to pay them some money in the papers. I alway wondered why the UK need to pay money to the EU. I could of course do a bit of googling as to find out why but havent got around to doing it

Tbh I don't bother taking too much information from brexit articles much these days..

Every media has an agenda. Read the Daily Mail it is ridiculously biased, Read the Guardian and its equally biased on the other end..

The express the Sun The BBC,... all of them have an angle they are working

 

[MyQul]

Tbh I don't bother taking too much information from brexit articles much these days..

Every media has an agenda. Read the Daily Mail it is ridiculously biased, Read the Guardian and its equally biased on the other end..

The express the Sun The BBC,... all of them have an angle they are working

Its not just the papers, it's the politicians themselves. My default postition for anything any politician says is, 'Bullsh*t'.As far as I'm concerned they're all self serving bulls*t merchants. You always need to look at their actions, not waht they say.

 

[Ajhutch]

The Americans got their pound of flesh for setting Europe free....!

Have to say the 'divorce bill' negotiation isn't going the way I expected. I expected them to start with 60bn, us to counter with zero (so far so good) then them to split the difference at 30bn and us to say 'done'. Their upping the price after we said zero has thrown me for a loop. Even as a Remainer I think we should accept the 60bn as the cost of getting on with the next stage, it sounds like a crazy number but in the context of our national debt it's not that enormous. The stuff that comes after is more important so we should get this bit out of the way!

 

[Ale]

The biggest problem with this is the press, Daily Mail et al, are flying a kite once again to vilify the EU

For any contact you sign there will be terms and conditions and so far the EU have only said that Britain has to fulfill it's obligations, they have never quoted figures however the Tories and the DM are quick to say " we will NOT pay ����£100 million" to make themselves look big and teh EU look like predators. the UK has to pay pensions, wages, on going expenses for all of the policies that they agreed to fund, legally they have no option, same as your mobile phone, you cancel it you still have to pay.

It defies logic that Mrs May who called an election purely and simply to strengthen her majority on the basis of Brexit is now crowing that the EU is "interfering" in the UK election. It is no such thing, the EU are trying to set the agenda for the upcoming Brexit talks regardless of the election which they have said will make NO difference to the talks.

Don't be fooled by the numbers bandied about , it is designed to make David Davis look like Davis versus Goliath by standing up to the bully. We will have to pay a reasonable amount but only with agreement, more scaremongering by the anti EU brigade in the media ( and of course the Tories).

You may as well believe Diane Abbott's numbers if you believe the Daily Mail's take on this one!

Thats pro EU spin. What the EU are saying they want us to pay is for agreements that the EU signed and will still benefit from, we as a country had not signed these agreements. The only basis for them saying we have to pay them is that we pay so much into the EU already that they are reliant on our funding and cant afford a lot of what they have committed to without us paying for it.

You could just as easily argue that if you had joined a club and were paying membership and then decided to leave it so they tell you that you have to pay them to leave because they had made commitments based on you paying your members fees.

 

[BeerisGOD]

Thats pro EU spin. What the EU are saying they want us to pay is for agreements that the EU signed and will still benefit from, we as a country had not signed these agreements. The only basis for them saying we have to pay them is that we pay so much into the EU already that they are reliant on our funding and cant afford a lot of what they have committed to without us paying for it.

You could just as easily argue that if you had joined a club and were paying membership and then decided to leave it so they tell you that you have to pay them to leave because they had made commitments based on you paying your members fees.

I'm afraid even this last logical paragraph won't put the next restless pro EU beerswillers next long winded (and mentally draining) essay to bed.

 

[geetee]

I'm afraid even this last logical paragraph won't put the next restless pro EU beerswillers next long winded (and mentally draining) essay to bed.

The last paragraph is precisely why we do have commitments and have to pay an as yet undecided figure. The future planning of the EU is built on the agreement of all members to pay for the things they vote for. if we have agreed to a policy and funding that stretches 20 years into the future why should we not pay?

The point I was making is that there are good reasons for the payment and despite what the papers (all of them ) say it has not yet been discussed or verified so any reports are guesswork.

Sorry if this is long winded essay, but it is aimed at people who want information and not mere soundbites and sabre rattling to back up their decision for voting leave! Never let the truth get in the way of a good story!

 

[Brewdoug]

Surely we are only responsible for our pension commitments up to the point we leave and cease to be these people's employers. Are they saying there's no pension fund in place?

 

[Ajhutch]

Surely we are only responsible for our pension commitments up to the point we leave and cease to be these people's employers. Are they saying there's no pension fund in place?

Indeed they are saying that. Just like there is no pension fund in place for the state pension in the UK which is just paid out of taxation. Same with the pension fund of Royal Mail which was retained by the government when it was privatised (there was a fund, government took the assets and said what a great deal it was because they'd reduced the national debt, but now has to meet the liabilities from general taxation). So in the case of the EU Commission, there is a debate to be had about what the existing liability is and what our share of it should be (eg should it be the number of Commission employees who are British, should it be in proportion to the number of MEPs we have, in proportion to our population, our budget contribution, the list goes on). It's a pointless debate, we should agree €60bn and move on.

 

[Ale]

The last paragraph is precisely why we do have commitments and have to pay an as yet undecided figure. The future planning of the EU is built on the agreement of all members to pay for the things they vote for. if we have agreed to a policy and funding that stretches 20 years into the future why should we not pay?

The point I was making is that there are good reasons for the payment and despite what the papers (all of them ) say it has not yet been discussed or verified so any reports are guesswork.

Sorry if this is long winded essay, but it is aimed at people who want information and not mere soundbites and sabre rattling to back up their decision for voting leave! Never let the truth get in the way of a good story!

If it was just for things we had voted for that would be one thing, but its been in the news not long ago that most of what they want us to pay for are things we voted AGAINST. A lot of it is for ongoing payments to subsidise other countries, which was a major reason why people voted to leave.

And both sides lied about what we pay into the EU. The total before the rebate was £350m a week which the leave campaign claimed. I once asked a good friend who was a remain campaigner what the figure we actually pay is. He gave me this speech that they have been told that they must be totally honest about it and the amount we as a country actually pay to the EU is £180m. He was wrong. After the rebate, the actual amount we pay is £250m a week. The EU then make payments totaling £70m to derived areas and to fund EU backed initiatives.

The country spoke n the Brexit referendum and the country has spoken again in these elections with the results. It wil be the same on 8th June. Hopefully at that point the remoaners will admit defeat.

And as for the argument from the young that its their future, I saw a program today in which about half the young people had not even heard of Angela Merkel and had no idea who she was. Thats not really the sort of awareness that I expect the people who want to decide our future to have.

 

[geetee]

If it was just for things we had voted for that would be one thing, but its been in the news not long ago that most of what they want us to pay for are things we voted AGAINST. A lot of it is for ongoing payments to subsidise other countries, which was a major reason why people voted to leave.

And both sides lied about what we pay into the EU. The total before the rebate was �£350m a week which the leave campaign claimed. I once asked a good friend who was a remain campaigner what the figure we actually pay is. He gave me this speech that they have been told that they must be totally honest about it and the amount we as a country actually pay to the EU is �£180m. He was wrong. After the rebate, the actual amount we pay is �£250m a week. The EU then make payments totaling �£70m to derived areas and to fund EU backed initiatives.

The country spoke n the Brexit referendum and the country has spoken again in these elections with the results. It wil be the same on 8th June. Hopefully at that point the remoaners will admit defeat.

And as for the argument from the young that its their future, I saw a program today in which about half the young people had not even heard of Angela Merkel and had no idea who she was. Thats not really the sort of awareness that I expect the people who want to decide our future to have.

I think you will find that the EU worked on a consensus and no one was forced to pay for things they voted against, it is the policies and administration that we signed up for that we have to settle. At this point in time no one knows the exact figure that this will be , there will be a two sided discussion that is the whole point of the talks discussion to agree this.

You are right that the country spoke in the referendum but that does not mean that " remoaners will admit defeat" Yes I voted remain however I accept that we are leaving and despite my yes vote I am still entitled to opinions about what I think is right and wrong. Opinions and facts on the brexit talks are not the sole possession of those who voted leave and we do not all have to toe the Hate the EU party line , we are enitlled to question and speak out, your vote did not include our silence.
The sooner we lose this them and us attitude the better it will be for the country, it's discussion of issues not simple right and wrong!

 

[Tanzanite]

After all the shouting about the complex issues , the money lost in admin ????? put this whole scenerio into a few real terms, We the UK (no matter what the scottish mouth dwarf says) are the first to have the bottle as a country to say enough is enough. Re moaners, outers, brexiters what ever side you took, out is out. Mark my words we will not be the last. Thats why the corrupt unelected bureaucrats who run this circus want to make it has hard has possible for the UK so it discourages the others, who didnt have enough money to join, Merkel and co, cooked the books to let them join,Hard brexit and the divorce bill is designed to make them frightened to leave. Viva Marine le pen the majority french will be a very small one , but half a of france want out of Europe. Germany, Merkel is ****ing her self , she is out this time round , and will be side line to poking her nose in along with tony blair. Half of Germany want another dictator. The faceless euro crooks are playing grab and run with the uk , this big divorce payment serves two purposes , scaring others not to leave and fills the crooks bank accounts one last time, if i was, Theresa May i would ask for a full audit of the books and accountability on every penny spent over the last ten years, get the jail cell ready , they are not all in FIFA. PS, i would also investigate Pritty Patel to find out the truth about the money she has been shoving over the water to a teenage pop group ???????????

 

[Ale]

I think you will find that the EU worked on a consensus and no one was forced to pay for things they voted against, it is the policies and administration that we signed up for that we have to settle. At this point in time no one knows the exact figure that this will be , there will be a two sided discussion that is the whole point of the talks discussion to agree this.

You are right that the country spoke in the referendum but that does not mean that " remoaners will admit defeat" Yes I voted remain however I accept that we are leaving and despite my yes vote I am still entitled to opinions about what I think is right and wrong. Opinions and facts on the brexit talks are not the sole possession of those who voted leave and we do not all have to toe the Hate the EU party line , we are enitlled to question and speak out, your vote did not include our silence.
The sooner we lose this them and us attitude the better it will be for the country, it's discussion of issues not simple right and wrong!

Thats not how it was reported on the news.

And yes you are entitled to your view and have the right to express it. What I dont like is a lot of the remoaners dont seem to share the view and seem to like casting accusation of racism, stupidity and such like at anyone who voted for Brexit. The liberal left are the worst at this and anyone who supports the tradition family is accused of being homophobic, anyone who is pro-life is accused of being sexist and anti-women having freedom of choice about their bodies, anyone who is worried about the level of uncontrolled immigration is a racist, or islamaphobic, or such like. I for one am fed up with free speech being eroded. It doesnt mean I support hate or discrimination, in fact its the opposite, I'm fed up with seeing hate thrown at anyone who has more traditional values.

 

[Covrich]

You are right that the country spoke in the referendum but that does not mean that " remoaners will admit defeat" Yes I voted remain however I accept that we are leaving and despite my yes vote I am still entitled to opinions about what I think is right and wrong. Opinions and facts on the brexit talks are not the sole possession of those who voted leave and we do not all have to toe the Hate the EU party line , we are enitlled to question and speak out, your vote did not include our silence.
The sooner we lose this them and us attitude the better it will be for the country, it's discussion of issues not simple right and wrong!

I couldn't agree with this more..

HOWEVER I have come to sympathise with brexiters about this a little because while I understand people freedom to debate and question and not fall in line ect.. should the result have gone the other way I suspect the remain side would have been pretty intolerant if the leave carried on to the same extent..


I feel this will go on for years and years because there is way too much intolerance.. Which falls on both sides of the argument in equal measure.

 

[geetee]

I couldn't agree with this more..

HOWEVER I have come to sympathise with brexiters about this a little because while I understand people freedom to debate and question and not fall in line ect.. should the result have gone the other way I suspect the remain side would have been pretty intolerant if the leave carried on to the same extent..


I feel this will go on for years and years because there is way too much intolerance.. Which falls on both sides of the argument in equal measure.

The reason for teh so called remaoaners going on and on is simply because even accepting that teh vote went against then it always seems that because they voted yes they are now excluded from the process. I am quite willing to accept we are leaving but still reserve the right to ctiticise what I see as blatantly biased arguments and reporting focused on "we won so why don't you just shut up and accept it"
I still feel that it will not work out well but am trying not to harp on about this but also will speak out when generalisations and slurs are made purely to vilify EU politicians, I have no axe to grind with them and think it in our best interests to keep it civil without demonising them as drunks and buffoons (look hard at Farage befor you cast such aspertions)

 

[shepp]

The biggest problem with this is the press, Daily Mail et al, are flying a kite once again to vilify the EU

For any contact you sign there will be terms and conditions and so far the EU have only said that Britain has to fulfill it's obligations, they have never quoted figures however the Tories and the DM are quick to say " we will NOT pay ���£100 million" to make themselves look big and teh EU look like predators. the UK has to pay pensions, wages, on going expenses for all of the policies that they agreed to fund, legally they have no option, same as your mobile phone, you cancel it you still have to pay.

It defies logic that Mrs May who called an election purely and simply to strengthen her majority on the basis of Brexit is now crowing that the EU is "interfering" in the UK election. It is no such thing, the EU are trying to set the agenda for the upcoming Brexit talks regardless of the election which they have said will make NO difference to the talks.

Don't be fooled by the numbers bandied about , it is designed to make David Davis look like Davis versus Goliath by standing up to the bully. We will have to pay a reasonable amount but only with agreement, more scaremongering by the anti EU brigade in the media ( and of course the Tories).

You may as well believe Diane Abbott's numbers if you believe the Daily Mail's take on this one!

This is exactly what David Davis has said -

"We are not supplicants," he said. "This is a negotiation. They lay down what they want and we lay down what we want."

Various figures ranging from 50 billion to 100 billion euros had been knocking around, Davis said, but he had "not seen" any official numbers.

When asked whether the figure was acceptable, he replied: "We will not be paying ?100 billion".

David also told the BBC that the 100 billion euro figure should be viewed "with a pinch of salt" and the negotiations would not "end up there".

Tell me what is wrong with that?

You like a lot of Tory critics are deliberately try to paint a different picture to what is really happening. EU politicians have openly said that Brexit can not be a success.
Many remoaners are adopting a twisted rhetoric to try and paint May and her government as irrational and anti EU. She is reacting to overly domineering EU that has too much power and too little accountability.
Most people instinctively get it and will vote accordingly, as they will view anti May rhetoric as a deliberate attempt to delegitimise her authority and so wreck our chances of a strong negotiating hand.
The vast majority of the British people take a very dim view of people who actively try and side against their own country.
One of the reasons why terrorist sympathiser Corbyn has never been accepted even by most Labour voters.

 

[Covrich]

The reason for teh so called remaoaners going on and on is simply because even accepting that teh vote went against then it always seems that because they voted yes they are now excluded from the process. I am quite willing to accept we are leaving but still reserve the right to ctiticise what I see as blatantly biased arguments and reporting focused on "we won so why don't you just shut up and accept it"
I still feel that it will not work out well but am trying not to harp on about this but also will speak out when generalisations and slurs are made purely to vilify EU politicians, I have no axe to grind with them and think it in our best interests to keep it civil without demonising them as drunks and buffoons (look hard at Farage befor you cast such aspertions)

Fully understand where you're coming from, but that wasn't my point, my point was should the remain vote have won the people who are arguing for the freedom of speech the right to question these things wouldn't be so accommodating for brexiters to harp on about it and would shut them down.. Do you think peaceful anti EU marches would have been covered or given the same acceptance?? I certainly do not.

That is where I come to sympathise, this large moral high ground which a lot of remainers take is pretty questionable. They swim in the same filth most of the time.

IMO People who are hard brexit fail to see their faults and BS
Likewise people who are hard remain fail to see their view and criminalize lay judgment anyone who has a different point of view or view on life as they do..

I never voted leave in the referendum last June... however if there was one tomorrow I would consider it.

As for the GE.... the games rigged been rigged for years..