Weizen Doppelbock

[Madhouse]

So, my brew mate had one of these the other day and liked it so much that we're going to give one a go. But as neither of us have made such a thing we've been getting our google on and having a look at what the rest of the homebrewing world has been up to, as such have come up with the following:

20L final volume, using all-grain on a 3 vessel HERMS.

Malts - Wheat (48.5%), Munich (23.1%), Vienna (23.1%), Caramunich I (7.7%), Lactose (7.7%)
Mash @ 65deg, 1hr
Boil - 1hr
Hops - Tettnang (25g, 60min), Saphir (12.5g, 60min), Saphir (15g, 10min), Tettnang (30g, 5min)
Yeast - Lallemand Munich Classic.

OG - 1.057
FG - 1.015
ABV - 5.5%
IBU - 24
EBC - 21.5

Currently a work in progress, the lactose is only there as the brewfather guide suggests we need a higher FG than we were getting otherwise.

Any thoughts on the recipe? should I be using other types of malt or hops?

Also one of the recipes called for a stepped mash where we'd be boiling 1/3 of the wort for 30 mins and adding it back to the mash. Is that what I should be doing to up that FG rather than cheating with lactose?

Thanks.

 

[JockyBrewer]

What's your inspiration? Is there a particular beer you're trying to follow?

First of all, lactose has no place in a weizenbock. I think the problem you have is that your OG is too low - this should be at least 1.065, as you're aiming for 7%+ ABV. Don't increase the bitterness any more.

The basics are the same as a Weizen, but more of everything. So 40-60% wheat malt, and the rest can be mostly pilsner malt, with some specialty malts for more interest. Paler versions tend to have more hops in the finish, whereas darker ones will lean more on the specialty malts.

The boiling stepped mash is a 'decoction' and is traditional in this style, but not essential. I'd nail down the recipe and fermentation first.

 

[Madhouse]

Thanks.

The beer he had was Apricity by Outlier Cartel, which I guess isn't strictly a doppel as it's 5.2%. It's also made with Speculaas which I believe is a spice mix of some sort.

I'll ditch the lactose and add more to everything else to bring up the abv.

 

[Sadfield]

https://www.beer52.com/shop/product/outlier-cartel/apricity-weizen-doppelbock/5767



That ain't no Doppelbock despite what they call it. Which throws up a question. Do you want to clone that beer, or brew a Doppelbock?

EDIT: It looks like a NZ Brewery once existed and brewed that beer at 8%. Now, Beer52 have a weaker version brewed for them in Belgium.

 

[Madhouse]

That is a good question. We're bottling a WCIPA tonight so I'll ask him about it, could be that we shelve this one and have a go at a Kolsch which was originally planned as the next brew (should probably have made it a few months ago to coincide with 'summer').

As for the Doppelbock recipe, updating the malts to 51% Wheat, 30% Pilsner, 13% Munich and 6% Caramunich I has got me to a new OG of 1.067 and FG of 1.014 which is still a tad low but the guide is 1.015-1.022 so it's close enough.

 

[Sadfield]

https://bsgcraftbrewing.com/doppelbock-the-perfect-winter-beer/

There's two recipes from Weyermann at the end of this article.

More Weyermann pilot brewery recipes here.

https://www.weyermann.de/en-gb/pilot-brewery/

 

[Harald]

I have already brewed several wheat beers and recommend adding 5% rice husks to the brew.

 

[prog99]

And quite a detailed article here. https://beerandbrewing.com/beyond-barley-the-perils-of-weizenbock/
Interesting that the Schneider brewer claims they dont use dark malts for Aventinus(one of my favourites)
Got me in the mood to make one soon

 

[chthon]

With speculaas spices, that’s more like Lebkuchen beer.

 

[Madhouse]

Thanks guys. Plan is that we're not copying the beer that kicked all this off, but making a proper Weizen Doppelbock, possibly even going for a decoction mash depending on how brave we're feeling.

Not done a brew with this much wheat in it thus far, so rice hulls is a good shout to avoid a stuck mash.

Have saved down those recipes @Sadfield, they'll be a great help, especially on mash profiles.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Thanks guys. Plan is that we're not copying the beer that kicked all this off, but making a proper Weizen Doppelbock, possibly even going for a decoction mash depending on how brave we're feeling.

Not done a brew with this much wheat in it thus far, so rice hulls is a good shout to avoid a stuck mash.

Have saved down those recipes @Sadfield, they'll be a great help, especially on mash profiles.

For however much wheat you have add 10% of oat husk/rice hull. So if you have 2kg wheat then use 200g husk.

Wheat also tends to create a lot of flour and if you have an exposed element that can burn, so recirculate quite a decent amount of wort back onto the mash bed before you start boiling.

 

[Harald]

Letztes Jahr habe ich ein dunkles Weizendoppelbockbier mit 3-stufiger Dekoktion gebraut.
Bei Fragen melde Dich gerne bei mir!

 

[matt76]

If you want to make any kind of German wheat beer I thoroughly recommend you have a read of this article from a German brewing magazine (translated into English!)

https://braumagazin.de/article/brewing-bavarian-weissbier-all-you-ever-wanted-to-know/

It does go into quite a bit of technical detail but I trust a German source for German beers infinitely more than a non-German attempt to approximate it

 

[Harald]

Wenn Sie irgendeine Art deutsches Weißbier brauen möchten, empfehle ich Ihnen dringend, diesen Artikel aus einer deutschen Brauereizeitschrift (ins Englische übersetzt!) zu lesen.

https://braumagazin.de/article/brewing-bavarian-weissbier-all-you-ever-wanted-to-know/

Es geht zwar ziemlich ins technische Detail, aber ich vertraue einer deutschen Quelle für deutsches Bier unendlich mehr als einem nicht-deutschen Versuch, es nachzuahmen.

That's how I see it too!
Many greetings from Germany.

 

[matt76]

That's how I see it too!
Many greetings from Germany.

Bitte schön!

(Ich habe Deutsche in die Schule gelernt aber jetzt nur kann ich Bier und Würst bestellen! )

 

[JockyBrewer]

Letztes Jahr habe ich ein dunkles Weizendoppelbockbier mit 3-stufiger Dekoktion gebraut.
Bei Fragen melde Dich gerne bei mir!


View attachment 102753

Könnte ich bitte das Rezept haben?

 

[Harald]

Könnte ich bitte das Rezept haben?

Of course.
Please read the conversation message.

 

[Madhouse]

Letztes Jahr habe ich ein dunkles Weizendoppelbockbier mit 3-stufiger Dekoktion gebraut.
Bei Fragen melde Dich gerne bei mir!

Certainly will! Although I warn you in advance my German's probably worse than @matt76's.

If you want to make any kind of German wheat beer I thoroughly recommend you have a read of this article from a German brewing magazine (translated into English!)

https://braumagazin.de/article/brewing-bavarian-weissbier-all-you-ever-wanted-to-know/

It does go into quite a bit of technical detail but I trust a German source for German beers infinitely more than a non-German attempt to approximate it

Wise words and advice I'm definitely using - bookmarked it already.

 

[Harald]

Certainly will!

Of course!

 

[Twostage]

possibly even going for a decoction mash depending on how brave we're feeling.

Do it. Nothing to it.

I did it for the first time last week. I just used a jug to grab a few litres of the mash and boiled it for 20 minutes and then dumped it back in at mashout. It was quite a thin mash and I think it would have been better if it had been thicker in the pan. So next time I would either use a combination of sieve and jug to get more of the grain or reserve some of the grist and put that in to the pan.

Although I've yet to see the results (as its still fermenting) I think it did add a bit of colour (which is what I was going for).