Way too malty?

[Kilgore Trout]

Hello, long time lurker, first time poster.

I have just bottled my second AG brew. It is like my first in that it tastes way too malty, not in a good beery way, in a tastes of raw malt steeped in it way.

Both are pale malt (~4kg) plus another wee bit amber and Vienna. Both started at 1056 OG. First used Mangrove Jack M07 yeast, second used Safale S-05. Both bubbled up pretty quick and stopped within 4 days. First stopped at 1012, second stalled at 1018, so I stirred, upped the temp and added another half sachet yeast, it finished at 1012 after another week.

Any ideas of what is causing this excessively malty flavour? Any more info required?

Cheers

 

[desmosteve]

What temperature do you mash at? If you get that too high you convert to primarily less fermentable sugars which increase the malt flavour but don't ferment out

 

[nobyipa]

mash for longer at a lower temperature
sounds like you have mashed at a higher end of the temp range for maybe too short a period
try single mash @ 63C 90mins

 

[graysalchemy]

US-05 doesn't add much flavour itself so what ever the underlying flavour be it malt or hops will come through.

And on that point what was your recipe you may well have not balanced it out with enough hop bitterness.

But I suspect as others have it may have been you mash not converting enough of the starch to fermentable sugar.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Mashed at 66ish for 60 mins both times. I'll try a longer, lower temp mash next time.

Had plenty of hops, BC 40g for 60 min 1st time and 40g Dr Rudi for 60 mins 2nd brew, plus later additions.

Thanks for the help.

 

[nobyipa]

Mashed at 66ish for 60 mins both times. I'll try a longer, lower temp mash next time.

Had plenty of hops, BC 40g for 60 min 1st time and 40g Dr Rudi for 60 mins 2nd brew, plus later additions.

Thanks for the help.

yup mashed at 67c for my american amber
but that was intentional to complement balance the dark malts i had in it
lovely malty taste does complement dark ales IMHO
but pale ales become to overwhelmingly sweet malty
something to do with balance
its all personal taste though
:thumb: :drink:

 

[pittsy]

It's possible you ratio of chloride to sulphate is chloride heavy , it may be that you want some calcium sulphate (gypsum) but without knowing your water this may be wrong and increase your calcium too high .
1 to 1 ratio chloride to sulphate gives you a more malty beer , while a ratio in favour of sulphate enhances the hop bitterness .

 

[nobyipa]

It's possible you ratio of chloride to sulphate is chloride heavy , it may be that you want some calcium sulphate (gypsum) but without knowing your water this may be wrong and increase your calcium too high .
1 to 1 ratio chloride to sulphate gives you a more malty beer , while a ratio in favour of sulphate enhances the hop bitterness .

yup water treatment???
never thought of that one
my water is lovely medium soft un chlorinated etc
easy to make burton profile here
:thumb:

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I use the gloriously soft water that comes out the tap in Edinburgh.

I reckon the mash temp is probably the cause, getting used to the big pot on the cooker may take longer than I hoped.

Again thanks for input.

 

[evanvine]

And here's me wanting more malt flavour!
Looks like stepped mashing is on the cards.

 

[pittsy]

And here's me wanting more malt flavour!
Looks like stepped mashing is on the cards.

I'm a huge fan of step mashing , even just 2 temps can transform the same beer into something else . I like the more malty too :grin:

 

[evanvine]

What temps and rests do you use Pittsy?

 

[NickW]

I know this can benefit a hefe from experience, makes a BIG difference. What about ale?

 

[evanvine]

That is my interest as well!

 

[pittsy]

German pilsner malt for example is good to mash in at 55c for 15 mins .
English malts , don't mash at 50c . You'll lose head retention and protein damage .
To get a good bodied beer full of maltiness , mash higher . 68c to 72c , I'd do 70/71c myself . But you want some dryness to the beer ( if not use less hops to get sweeter ) you may be better doing a small rest at 60/64c , i'd do 63c for 15 -30 mins . More for drier .
If wanting to mash higher temp don't over do the lower rest ( like 60 mins as it'll be too late and finished)
Then finish off at 71c for 40 plus mins , use iodine to check if mash complete .
You'll most likely get better efficiency too , poss 5% .
Try it for a batch and let me know what you think .

 

[evanvine]

Thanks P, that's food for thought.

 

[Dr Mike]

When you say excessively malty, do you mean in a sweet, slightly butterscotch way ? I had something similar with US-05 last year and am pretty sure it was Diacetyl from the fermentation (it faded with time in bottle).

From what I've read, it seems that with this yeast, it's best to raise the temp to 20C towards the end if fermentation and give it plenty if time before racking (I saw 5 days suggested somewhere).

 

[robsan77]

How much amber? That can really malt it up if you use to much. I like 100g in a 25l batch.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Robsan and Dr Mike, I used 2 different yeasts with the same result, so I think I can eliminate yeast as the issue. The amber was 500g both times for a 20l brew.

 

[Duxuk]

500g!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's that worked out, then. I don't like to use more than 100g in 20l. Otherwise it gets that overly malty sweetness.