Variables???

[Dutto]

Here are some (but NOT all) of the variables in AG brewing:

1. The Grain. (There are dozens of types available.)

2. The Mill. (From "flour" to "just cracked".)

3. The Mash. (From a fixed time and temperature to multiple times at multiple temperatures.)

4. The Yeast. (God only knows how many varieties there are; but I don't!)

5. The Fermentation time and temperature. (Again a multiplication of time and temperature.)

6. The Carbonation and Conditioning. (Another multiplication of time and temperature.)

Add on all of the other elements available and most brains will go into meltdown! :lol::lol:

May I suggest that:

1. Brewing is a pastime and NOT a scientific experiment.

2. Recommendations on the Forum are just that; and NOT the only way to brew anything.

Please feel free to comment! :lol: :thumb: :lol: :thumb: :lol:

 

[Ajhutch]

I agree with the spirit of your post. But. Most of us are treating Brewing as a pastime but we probably all still want to make the best beer that we can. And if some other people have treated Brewing as science and we can use their work to improve our enjoyment of our pastime it makes sense to do so. And it makes sense to make all of that information available to members who ask questions. Just because a quotation from a research paper or a book and somebody's accumulated experience are not identical doesn't make either of them invalid, it makes for an interesting thing for a brewer to consider.


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[Irishwizard]

Didn't realise you had a foot of snow in Lincs today.!! (work it out) I agree, just brew and enjoy the results, but some folks are just a bit ultra competitive.

 

[MyQul]

The way I see it is brewing is extremely simple (mash, boil, ferment. Thats it) but at the same time extremely complicated (for everyone of these steps you can slice them into loads of different variables.)
So for the brewer who just wants to make beer as easily as possible s/he ignores all the 'slices' and just follows, mash, boil, ferment. You'll invariably end up with beer.
But then you get into the hobby side of it and you can delve as deeply as you like into every one of these variable. You'll still invariably end up with beer

It all depends how far down the rabbit hole you want to go

 

[simon12]

You can just make beer you like and not worry about much or try to tweek every last little detail to improve, as long as you like drinking it there no wrong way.

 

[strange-steve]

I think that's part of the beauty of brewing, it appeals to a wide variety of people, whether you just want some cheap booze as simply as possible or want to delve into the incredibly complex chemistry involved, or somewhere in between.

You may be happy to just brew a beer that suits you, over and over, you may want to replicate a particular commercial beer, or you may want to brew "perfectly to style" to win competitions. There's nothing wrong with any of those, and how seriously you take brewing is entirely up to you and as long as you are happy then nobody can tell you you're wrong.

 

[Sadfield]

Damn right it's a hobby. However, brewing is a process bound by science, and giving out advice that flies in the face of basic scientific principles won't help anyone brew good beer, regardless how seriously they take it. The skill in brewing (or any production process) is limiting variables, and understanding the science of a process is a great tool in doing that.

May I suggest that:

1. Brewing is a chain of complex bio-chemical interactions.

2. Posts on the Forum should be factually correct and shouldn't be dumbed down to suit certain members; however the application of knowledge is NOT the only way to brew anything.

Please feel free to comment. :thumb:

 

[MyQul]

You can just make beer you like and not worry about much or try to tweek every last little detail to improve, as long as you like drinking it there no wrong way.

And to paraphrase, "...as long as you're having fun this is no wrong way" :thumb:

 

[MyQul]

Damn right it's a hobby. However, brewing is a process bound by science, and giving out advice that flies in the face of basic scientific principles won't help anyone brew good beer, regardless how seriously they take it. The skill in brewing (or any production process) is limiting variables, and understanding the science of a process is a great tool in doing that.

May I suggest that:

1. Brewing is a chain of complex bio-chemical interactions.

2. Posts on the Forum should factually correct and shouldn't be dumbed down to suit certain members; however the application of knowledge is NOT the only way to brew anything.

Please feel free to comment. :thumb:

I think this is the difference between the basic kit (like mine. Pot. BIAB. FV. plus sundry kitchen equipment) and more complicated kit like an electric 3V system or a Braumeiseter. I can make just as good beer as you could with this more complicated kit but with that sort of kit you've got loads more control over the variables and can do thinks like consistancy of data (such as efficiency figures) and reliable repeatition of recipes

 

[Sadfield]

Exactly. The invention of the automated homebrew system is a way of controlling the mash temperature variable and is a response to the scientific knowledge of how temperature affects the mash process. Any advantage can easily be undone without a knowledge of the science of fermentation.

The beauty of this hobby is that there is always something to learn, with the reward of incremental gains in quality.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Exactly. The invention of the automated homebrew system is a way of controlling the mash temperature variable and is a response to the scientific knowledge of how temperature affects the mash process. Any advantage can easily be undone without a knowledge of the science of fermentation.

The beauty of this hobby is that there is always something to learn, with the reward of incremental gains in quality.

ATM i'm learning that marmite cashew nuts are awesome with a dark beer or 4 :grin:

 

[Sadfield]

ATM i'm learning that marmite cashew nuts are awesome with a dark beer or 4 :grin:

Of course, there is no helping some people.:nono:

 

[dad_of_jon]

Of course, there is no helping some people.:nono:

I'm beyond redemption :lol:

 

[Clint]

Thanks for the tip dad of Jon. ....

 

[Bigcol49]

. . . brewing is a process bound by science, and giving out advice that flies in the face of basic scientific principles won't help anyone brew good beer, regardless how seriously they take it.

Hi!
There are many forums out there, loads of blogs and thousands of opinions. Sometimes a member may read something elsewhere that is different to what might be called "received knowledge" about brewing and link to it or mention it in a post. Other homebrewers are pushing the boundaries and challenging what might be seen as sacred cows of homebrewing.
It's up to each member to decide whether to accept the ideas put forward and to try them in their own brewing or to reject them out of hand.
As far as science is concerned, I agree - there are basic principles that can't be ignored.

 

[Jakeyboi]

Here are some (but NOT all) of the variables in AG brewing:

1. The Grain. (There are dozens of types available.)

2. The Mill. (From "flour" to "just cracked".)

3. The Mash. (From a fixed time and temperature to multiple times at multiple temperatures.)

4. The Yeast. (God only knows how many varieties there are; but I don't!)

5. The Fermentation time and temperature. (Again a multiplication of time and temperature.)

6. The Carbonation and Conditioning. (Another multiplication of time and temperature.)

Add on all of the other elements available and most brains will go into meltdown! :lol::lol:

May I suggest that:

1. Brewing is a pastime and NOT a scientific experiment.

2. Recommendations on the Forum are just that; and NOT the only way to brew anything.

Please feel free to comment! :lol: :thumb: :lol: :thumb: :lol:

You forgot to mention hops! Hundreds of variety's combined and added into the boil in different times and quantities.

I would disagree and say that brewing a batch of beer is almost certainly a science experiment. You make a prediction based on knowledge to mix grains, hops and yeast using specific methods to produce beer, you then evaluate and make a conclusion when you taste that beer. The only difference is that in a lab you would only change one variable at a time, to see how each change affects the final product. However could you imagine how long it would take to do that, you would spend your life and never move on from one type of beer. I thus conclude that we are all scientists just really **** ones.

 

[Dutto]

Damn right it's a hobby. However, brewing is a process bound by science, and giving out advice that flies in the face of basic scientific principles won't help anyone brew good beer, regardless how seriously they take it. The skill in brewing (or any production process) is limiting variables, and understanding the science of a process is a great tool in doing that.

May I suggest that:

1. Brewing is a chain of complex bio-chemical interactions.

2. Posts on the Forum should factually correct and shouldn't be dumbed down to suit certain members; however the application of knowledge is NOT the only way to brew anything.

Please feel free to comment. :thumb:

I wasn't aware that someone explaining what works for them was "dumbing down".

Maybe there should be a section entitled "It Works For Me" where the scientific intricacies of a process are left unstated ...

... and a similar section dedicated to the really smart people on the Forum.

I'm sure that you could come up with a suitable title.

 

[aamcle]

There are too many variables to count and many many of them are beyond the control of home brewers, just keep pushing things in the right direction make beer n don't worry about them.


aamcle

 

[Sadfield]

Feel free to say what works for you, Dutto. Saying 'what works for me' is different than stating something scientifical wrong as a reason for why something goes wrong for others. Asking people not to refer to the science of brewing, is dumbing down.

I suggest a walk is in order.


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[Slid]

Damn right it's a hobby. However, brewing is a process bound by science, and giving out advice that flies in the face of basic scientific principles won't help anyone brew good beer, regardless how seriously they take it. The skill in brewing (or any production process) is limiting variables, and understanding the science of a process is a great tool in doing that.

May I suggest that:

1. Brewing is a chain of complex bio-chemical interactions.

2. Posts on the Forum should factually correct and shouldn't be dumbed down to suit certain members; however the application of knowledge is NOT the only way to brew anything.

Please feel free to comment. :thumb:

OK, since Sadfield has a point to make, here, I comment as follows:

Science is essentially an empirical sort of thing in the sense that observations are made and models are constructed to explain those observations.

If the models are useful, in the sense that beyond "explaining" the observations, they enable reliable and repeatable predictions to be made, then that is science.

When the models no longer enable reliable and repeatable predictions to be made, the models are refined.

So, I do support the point that Sadfield makes, as it is essentially scientific.

A close look at some of the threads on this forum (especially and most particularly the shorter ones) will see the scientific method glorified.