Using Thin Bleach

[strange-steve]

Your beer, your choice

No, and Ill say again, NO, do not use bleach to clean your equipment

Make your mind up mate

 

[Soton]

So why do you think that the 1990 Food Safety Act banned the use of bleach in kitchens?
Do you think that they were doing this for fun?
Maybe they are doing it for ****s and giggles?
Your beer, your choice

I was interested in what you said about bleach being banned, I have had a look through the food safety act and can't find where it says bleach is banned, any idea where abouts in the act it is, I would like to know more of why it's banned

 

[Spoon]

i prob would use bleach but use the vinegar trick which alludes me atm

100ml of each in a 5 gallon bucket of water (watet in the bucket first).

In terms of toxicity pretty much anything in the brewing process will kill you if you eat/drink enough of it. You've got that big 5 gallon bucket of boiling sugary water for a start!

 

[Soton]

A quick update about bleach being banned and it seems it's not
http://forum.iosh.co.uk/?g=posts&t=107872

Thinking about it we let our kids swim in the stuff at local swimming pools and have done for years, so sterilising a bit of brewing kit with thin bleach should not be a concern

 

[geetee]

I was interested in what you said about bleach being banned, I have had a look through the food safety act and can't find where it says bleach is banned, any idea where abouts in the act it is, I would like to know more of why it's banned

Apparently there is a bit of a myth about bleach being banned simply for the reason I suggested earlier, it's easier to say that than to put adequate precautions and training in place. there is a lot of references on' internet ,example statement given below which fits with what I was saying properly handled is perfectly acceptable you just have to show that you have safe practices - Due dilligence- and some can't be bothered

"Who spreads these stories; bleach is banned indeed!
If bleach was banned because it’s too dangerous then a lot of people would be out of work very quickly- me included.
Nothing is really banned- it’s mainly down to risk assessment under COSHH ( and other legislation)."

COSSH is Control of Substances Hazardous to Health, applies to use of chemicals even at home.

 

[Soton]

For those of you who are not worried about bleach here is a link for bleach dilution ( and starsan)

http://www.calczilla.com/brewing/sanitizer-dilution/

 

[geetee]

100ml of each in a 5 gallon bucket of water (watet in the bucket first).

In terms of toxicity pretty much anything in the brewing process will kill you if you eat/drink enough of it. You've got that big 5 gallon bucket of boiling sugary water for a start!

Look in any microbrewery you have hot caustic, perchloric acid, glycol for coolants and all are acceptable as long as you have HACCP system of critical controls in place to stop exposure to the end users consuming these in the product. If not then you are in trouble!

 

[darkbright]

I'm sure people can make their own minds up here. It's your beer and the people who will be drinking it will be you, your friends and your family. If you are happy that something is safe then it's up to you really.

Each to their own.

 

[samnorfolk]

The reason behind this is because its too strong. No matter how much you dilute bleach, it only takes one lapse of concentration and the next thing you know, people are dying. there was a recent case of a food shop owner who bought some concentrated vinegar, didnt tell his/her staff that it had to be "watered down", the staff used it "neat". Im not 100% sure but I think someone died and the owner went to prison. What I cant understand is the fact that some Home Brewers think that using bleach is OK (no matter how diluted it is). There are plenty of good sanitizers available, without resorting to bleach

May i ask what you do in regards to sanitising your equipment, i use Starsan but feel it needs something before that to clean the equipment with

 

[Dutto]

Okay, I've stayed away from this Thread waiting for ElChemist to step in with a touch of reality ...

... but he's too busy complimenting Leg Ends! :whistle:

The chemical term for what we know as Bleach is Sodium Hypochlorite with the chemical formula NaOCl.

It is commonly made from seawater through a process of electrolysis whereby ...

NaCl (Salt) + H2O (Water) >> electrolysis >> NaOCl + H2​

Sodium hypochlorite is commonly used as a sterilising agent in drinking water and here is the UK governments take on the matter ...

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa.../hpa_sodium_hypochlorite_general__info_v1.pdf

While I'm at it, how about Milton Sterilising Fluid? Here it is, right under "Baby Feeding".

https://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/milton-sterilising-fluid/prd-hju?gclid=CIO01JH07s4CFeMW0wodCmUBHw

It's the stuff we have used for many years to sterilise our baby's bottles to make sure that they don't die of infectious diseases.

Here's the Material Safety Data Sheet for Milton Sterilising Fluid and guess what? Right there in Section 2 - Composition it states "Chlorine based bleaching agent <5%" ...

... this is Sodium Hypochlorite ...

... and <5% is exactly the maximum concentration of Sodium Hypochlorite in Tesco's Thin Bleach!

Of course it is safe to use bleach to sanitise brewing gear. Just make sure that you rinse everything out before using it ...

... and DO NOT DRINK THE BLEACH ITSELF!

Hope this helps. :thumb:

 

[IainM]

I'm sure people can make their own minds up here. It's your beer and the people who will be drinking it will be you, your friends and your family. If you are happy that something is safe then it's up to you really.

Each to their own.

I kind of completely agree with this, but also completely disagree. I disagree with the reasoning in general because either it is safe or it isn't, and whether it is safe or not has nothing to do with how anybody feels about it. In this particular case however I agree, because it is safe, as long as it is rinsed properly, so it is up to the individual as to whether they want to use it.

 

[darkbright]

I kind of completely agree with this, but also completely disagree. I disagree with the reasoning in general because either it is safe or it isn't, and whether it is safe or not has nothing to do with how anybody feels about it. In this particular case however I agree, because it is safe, as long as it is rinsed properly, so it is up to the individual as to whether they want to use it.

But "safe" is a continuum, not 2 distinct points - "safe" and "un-safe". Safe is releative to the task and the individual.

My point is that if you are reasonably intelligent adult who can reason and consider a situation or task, then you should be fine. If you are not then you should probably just stay away from bleach, and roads and the outside in general.

My other point is that we are free human beings who can choose what we do. I will certainly not be telling people what they should do.

 

[Fil]

thought i would wade in for a bit of fun.. bleach if used needs at least 3 x rinses, And your best off making the first rinse a sodium metabisuphate solution as that will go a long way neutralising the chlorine in the bleach which can lead to the tcp off flavours..

Thick bleach contains more of those ionic surficants which afaik are the things that increase its ability to withstand rinses or toilet flushes, they also kill head retention in beer so for our uses thin bleach is a better option.

while i started brewing with bleach and other chlorine based sanitisers i dont use em now, relying on laundry oxi for cleaning and no rinse sanitosers like videne and starsan , though im looking at moving onto PAA next. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-LITRE-P...-FOOD-MACHINERY-PLANT-SANITISER-/201389774939
It will need more careful handeling especially when used from a spray bottle but unlike starsan will also be effective against wild yeast strains.

BTW If a leathal dose of bleach found its way into the wort it would kill of the yeast populations pitched and not produce beer so wouldnt be any more disastrous than the loss of the brew itself..

 

[Godsdog]

just like to add that coopers used to recommend a weak bleach soloution on the instructions when they were under the cap,now they have put the instructions on the reverse of the can wrapper.if its still recommends it I know not

 

[Dutto]

"Safe?" and "Unsafe?" are relative terms!

As a young man I thought that beds were safe ... :thumb:

... and then her mother came home early and I had to walk back to my ship on the other side of Hull wearing just a pair of shoes, my underpants and a macintosh!

Luckily for me it was nighttime and as my wallet and ID were in the macintosh I didn't have to go back for anything; and I kind of knew I had said my goodbyes when the sugar-bowl aimed at my head bounced off the front door as I was leaving! :whistle:

Happy Days!! :thumb: :thumb:

 

[ElChemist]

Too hungover to bother with a full reply...

Good old Paracelsus said "All things are poison and nothing is without poison; only the dose makes a thing not a poison."

Is it worth saving the 4 quid you'll save in the long run over buying some Starsan (Yes, I did the maths) and Oxi with the risk of ruining your beer? Thats your choice...

The rest of this is smoke filled coffee house crap. Yes you can use it, yes its safe as long as you arent an ***** and rinse correctly, is it worth it? Your call really...

 

[geetee]

Too hungover to bother with a full reply...

Good old Paracelsus said "All things are poison and nothing is without poison; only the dose makes a thing not a poison."

Is it worth saving the 4 quid you'll save in the long run over buying some Starsan (Yes, I did the maths) and Oxi with the risk of ruining your beer? Thats your choice...

The rest of this is smoke filled coffee house crap. Yes you can use it, yes its safe as long as you arent an ***** and rinse correctly, is it worth it? Your call really...

It's a bit like the argument in US that Guns don't kill people , people kill people.
My argument would be "Bleach doesn't spoil beer, people spoil beer!"

 

[ElChemist]

Guns don't kill people. A gun doesn't point itself at another person...

Your point would be absolutely correct...

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[Fil]

Guns don't kill people. A gun doesn't point itself at another person...

Your point would be absolutely correct...

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

I have to disagree guns do point themselves at people,, one saturday afternoon i went back to my place with the then G/F and needed/wanted something from the cupboard, i removed the .22 air-rifle that was used to scare off the foxes from the communal chicken coup. Unknown to me my housemate had left it loaded and cocked!!

balancing the rifle in one hand with a finger through the trigger guard, it slipped pointed itself at Allisons Lovely bottom before pressing itself against my finger and firing. For the following 10 minutes my vocabulary consisted of one word "****!!"

It wasn't as bad as it could have been thankfully, and later i spent a while kissing the bruise better

 

[geetee]

I have to disagree guns do point themselves at people,, one saturday afternoon i went back to my place with the then G/F and needed/wanted something from the cupboard, i removed the .22 air-rifle that was used to scare off the foxes from the communal chicken coup. Unknown to me my housemate had left it loaded and cocked!!

balancing the rifle in one hand with a finger through the trigger guard, it slipped pointed itself at Allisons Lovely bottom before pressing itself against my finger and firing. For the following 10 minutes my vocabulary consisted of one word "****!!"

It wasn't as bad as it could have been thankfully, and later i spent a while kissing the bruise better

Aye well that's your story and your sticking to it, how did you ever get away with THAT!

I have yet to have bottle of bleach unscrew it's own lid and throw itself in my face however!