US-05 slow clearing

[SteveH]

Anyone else have issues with US-05 taking absolutely ages to clear?

I've used it twice, first time it took nearly 3 months in the bottle to clear!

I stupidly tried it again on an IPA recently and after a month it still looks murky as (and not in a good way, tastes grainy and yeasty)

I'm only on brew #7 but all my other attempts with different yeast (NBS ale/west coast, wiko ale yeast) have dropped perfectly clear in a week or so.

Any tips? Tried putting one in the fridge for a few days and it looked even worse (drank it tho, purely for research purposes!)

 

[Covrich]

It isn' the best flocculation but 3 months does not sound right at all.

The fridge sounds like chill haze but leave them in there for a few weeks and see.

Wilko ale yeast is a good floccer and the yeast drops quickly, sadly I wouldn't use it on an IPA as it tends to suppress hop character

 

[SteveH]

Wilko ale yeast is a good floccer and the yeast drops quickly, sadly I wouldn't use it on an IPA as it tends to suppress hop character

Yup the wilko yeast was used on more lightly hopped ale styles, I've done 3 IPAs, two with US-05 and one with NBS West Coast (which I think is the same as BRY-97?), the NBS one cleared fine so perhaps I'll just order some more of that unless I'm doing something wrong which is causing these issues.

 

[lancon]

I found S-05 difficult to clear so use BRY97 (yes NBS West Coast), though while talking to local microbrewery they said exactly the opposite and use S-05 as BRY97 doesn't clear...

 

[stz]

us05 never drops bright without fining. It clears up, but there is always an 'acceptable' haze.

 

[Covrich]

I cannot say I have quite the same problems as you lot, I have made a few fake pilsners with US05 and they are crystal clear after a bit of lagering in the bottle

 

[SteveH]

us05 never drops bright without fining. It clears up, but there is always an 'acceptable' haze.

To be fair the last few bottles of my first batch did eventually clear pretty much completely, but it took over 4 months (clear-ish after 3) and I thought you were supposed to drink IPAs relatively fresh to preserve the hop aroma.

Maybe I should try gelatin or something but I'm just confused since this is such a popular yeast aunsure....

 

[stz]

I know it opens a can of worms when people use words like never and always. From my perspective us05 never clears without fining, but that is from the perspective of typical use. If you make a pils with it, bottle it and then leave it in the fridge for weeks without moving it, maybe, would it survive being moved? If you make an IPA, bottle it, leave it in the fridge for months without moving it, maybe. Lots of things will drop eventually given enough time. For me that marks it poor flocculation. If I leave it in a conical at -1C for two weeks it'll still have a haze. If I keg it and those kegs are given a 6 month shelf life they'll still pour with a haze throughout the period of time they exist. Admittedly people will move them, but us05 never drops bright without fining, good enough.

Weirdly enough lots of yeasts which don't drop will drop in small pack. Don't understand why, but like windsor will look like soup for weeks in tank, but be bright in keg and can after 48 hours. People quote stokes' law at me, but I'm not buying it. Thermal convection? I don't know.

 

[joe 90]

i use it most of the time in ipa and red ales i re rack into a secondary ferment-er dry hop for a week then lift the hops out and then add gelatin and leave for another week and get crystal clear beer

 

[Ghillie]

I would bet a month's wages that the problem is not US-05, but something else in the brewing process.

I stupidly tried it again on an IPA recently and after a month it still looks murky as (and not in a good way, tastes grainy and yeasty)

That's definitely not US-05. I use it explicitly for it's neutral profile, I absolutely despise "yeasty" strains and wouldn't use it if that were the case.

Tried putting one in the fridge for a few days and it looked even worse (drank it tho, purely for research purposes!)

Chill haze.

Any tips?

Cold crash and fine with gelatin if you want super clear beer.

Are you kegging or bottling? That yeasty taste you talk about sounds a lot like trub getting carried over into the bottles. Are you using a bottling bucket? A lot of bottle sediment?

 

[SteveH]

I would bet a month's wages that the problem is not US-05, but something else in the brewing process.
That's definitely not US-05. I use it explicitly for it's neutral profile, I absolutely despise "yeasty" strains and wouldn't use it if that were the case.

Yeah it may well be something I'm doing wrong, as a beginner it's hard to tell. It sounds like either this yeast is less tolerant of my rookie process errors, or I need some additional steps (cold crash/fining) which I've been getting by without using other yeasts.

Maybe I didn't describe the taste thing well, the flavour is neutral, but unlike some hazy IPA styles this cloudiness detracts from the mouthfeel, it's drinkable but nothing like the other brews I've done with different yeasts, which did have some haze but mostly it was cosmetic.

Are you kegging or bottling? That yeasty taste you talk about sounds a lot like trub getting carried over into the bottles. Are you using a bottling bucket? A lot of bottle sediment?

I'm bottling, and full disclosure I did forget the irish moss on this batch (doh!), but most of the trub did get left in the fermenter - I do use a bottling bucket and there wasn't much debris in it.

My very first AG beer was brewed on a course (and with US-05) with a pro brewer instructing, and even then the resulting bottles took months to clear - sounds like I need to stick to more flocculant strains or be prepared to add cold-crash/fining to my process.

 

[Ghillie]

Yeah it may well be something I'm doing wrong, as a beginner it's hard to tell. It sounds like either this yeast is less tolerant of my rookie process errors, or I need some additional steps (cold crash/fining) which I've been getting by without using other yeasts.

We're all rookies in some respects! Don't worry about it. The best thing about brewing is the knowledge and techniques learned over time. Every day is a school day!

Are you using temperature control? US-05 is a super hardy yeast, but all yeasts like consistency regardless of strain.

Maybe I didn't describe the taste thing well, the flavour is neutral, but unlike some hazy IPA styles this cloudiness detracts from the mouthfeel, it's drinkable but nothing like the other brews I've done with different yeasts, which did have some haze but mostly it was cosmetic.

Is carbonation correct, what vols did you shoot for? How was your mash, did you monitor temperatures throughout the duration?

I'm bottling, and full disclosure I did forget the irish moss on this batch (doh!), but most of the trub did get left in the fermenter - I do use a bottling bucket and there wasn't much debris in it.

This will almost definitely play a part. Certainly on the aesthetic front where those proteins will cause permanent haze and definitely chill haze. I don't know whether the proteins left in suspension (as a result of omitting kettle finings: Irish Moss) can impact flavour and mouthfeel, but it's a strong possibility.

My very first AG beer was brewed on a course (and with US-05) with a pro brewer instructing, and even then the resulting bottles took months to clear - sounds like I need to stick to more flocculant strains or be prepared to add cold-crash/fining to my process.

What equipment did you use? Did you have a recirculating mash?

 

[SteveH]

We're all rookies in some respects! Don't worry about it. The best thing about brewing is the knowledge and techniques learned over time. Every day is a school day!

Are you using temperature control? US-05 is a super hardy yeast, but all yeasts like consistency regardless of strain.

Until very recently I wasn't, but I recently got a heat mat an an Inkbird 308, so I can brew in a cool room and hopefully maintain a more stable temperature (at least this time of year when I can turn the radiator off and let the ambient temperature drop)

Is carbonation correct, what vols did you shoot for? How was your mash, did you monitor temperatures throughout the duration?

Yeah carbonation is fine - I used 50g dextrose for a 10-ish litre batch, so about 2 vols at 20c.

Mash was a 90min BIAB mash, I do monitor temperature and it was 66c, dropping only 1-2c over the duration.

This will almost definitely play a part. Certainly on the aesthetic front where those proteins will cause permanent haze and definitely chill haze. I don't know whether the proteins left in suspension (as a result of omitting kettle finings: Irish Moss) can impact flavour and mouthfeel, but it's a strong possibility.

Yeah that does seem likely - I've got the ingredients to do another batch so I'll re-brew the same recipe (I'm tempted to use a different yeast but it'd be good to isolate the problem).

What equipment did you use? Did you have a recirculating mash?

On the course it was a 3-vessel system, we manually recirculated with a jug until the wort ran clear, then fly-sparged. The boil did use protofloc in that case, which is why I started wondering if the yeast was my problem in my home BIAB setup.

 

[Ghillie]

Until very recently I wasn't, but I recently got a heat mat an an Inkbird 308, so I can brew in a cool room and hopefully maintain a more stable temperature (at least this time of year when I can turn the radiator off and let the ambient temperature drop)

Good man, temperature control is the ultimate thing in brewing IMO.

Yeah carbonation is fine - I used 50g dextrose for a 10-ish litre batch, so about 2 vols at 20c.

That is a very low carbed beer for the style. You'd really want to be aiming for 2.4 vols - 3 vols for an American IPA. I would bet that the lack of carbonation is a huge factor in your mouthfeel issues.

Mash was a 90min BIAB mash, I do monitor temperature and it was 66c, dropping only 1-2c over the duration.

Good mash temp, did you recirculate in your own setup? The lack of recirculating wort can result in a hazy beer. Not a bad beer by any means, just not as clear as one that's been recirculated, potentially.

On the course it was a 3-vessel system, we manually recirculated with a jug until the wort ran clear, then fly-sparged. The boil did use protofloc in that case, which is why I started wondering if the yeast was my problem in my home BIAB setup.

So what was the score on the course, did you take the wort home to ferment yourself or was the fermentation done on site?

I wouldn't change yeast, it's not your problem IMO. US-05 is probably the best dry yeast out there, it's popular for good reason. By all means use different yeast, but I'm confident that's not why you're experiencing what you are.

-Sanitary practices need to be absolutely sound. Starsan is the industry leader, get some if you can.
-Cold crash and kettle finings. Essential for clear beer. Gelatin will take that clarity to the next level.
-Fermentation temperatures. Absolutely paramount.

 

[SteveH]

Good man, temperature control is the ultimate thing in brewing IMO.
That is a very low carbed beer for the style. You'd really want to be aiming for 2.4 vols - 3 vols for an American IPA. I would bet that the lack of carbonation is a huge factor in your mouthfeel issues.

Understood, maybe I'll try slightly more next time but I wanted to avoid any risk of gushers/bottle bombs.

Good mash temp, did you recirculate in your own setup? The lack of recirculating wort can result in a hazy beer. Not a bad beer by any means, just not as clear as one that's been recirculated, potentially.

I don't, it's pretty basic BIAB on the stove-top, I might consider adding a tap to the pot soon though so I can do a manual vorlauf leaving the bag in the pot (then drain/sparge into a spare FV before boiling).

I don't think that's my issue here though, as although none of my previous batches were crystal clear, the yeast generally did drop to the bottom of the bottle vs floating around in the brew.

So what was the score on the course, did you take the wort home to ferment yourself or was the fermentation done on site?

It was fermented on site, fancy conical FVs in their temperature controlled fermentation room.

I wouldn't change yeast, it's not your problem IMO. US-05 is probably the best dry yeast out there, it's popular for good reason. By all means use different yeast, but I'm confident that's not why you're experiencing what you are.

-Sanitary practices need to be absolutely sound. Starsan is the industry leader, get some if you can.
-Cold crash and kettle finings. Essential for clear beer. Gelatin will take that clarity to the next level.
-Fermentation temperatures. Absolutely paramount.

Understood - I may have to do a split batch at some point though just for my own curiosity - I'll also look into cold-crashing and gelatin for future brews.

Thanks for the tips!

 

[Ghillie]

No problem at all!

By the way, have you cold conditioned your bottles? Try leaving them in the shed for a few weeks. Search the forum for 2 + 2 +2 method or something, a lot of those who bottle condition swear by it.

 

[SteveH]

By the way, have you cold conditioned your bottles? Try leaving them in the shed for a few weeks. Search the forum for 2 + 2 +2 method or something, a lot of those who bottle condition swear by it.

Yeah I have tried leaving them outside in a box for a week or so, maybe it will take longer so I'm going to leave them now unless the temperature drops well below freezing.

Happily I've got a second batch (not quite the same recipe but another IPA) where I remembered the irish moss, and used NBS west-coast yeast just bottled.

That one is already clearing at room temperature after only 2 days in the bottle, but the previous batch still looks like muddy pond water after sitting outside for over a week.

Ah well, I'll chalk it up to experience I guess and try to improve my process in future!

 

[cheshirehomebrew]

i use it most of the time in ipa and red ales i re rack into a secondary ferment-er dry hop for a week then lift the hops out and then add gelatin and leave for another week and get crystal clear beer

I use exactly the same method and I get clear beer every time, with a little sediment left in the bottle at the bottom, and US-05 is my go to yeast of choice now, for all my ales.