Ukraine crisis: World leaders step up talks amid invasion fears

[Chippy_Tea]

So is this Russia flexing its muscles or is it going to kick off?


World leaders are stepping up efforts to reduce tensions over Ukraine as fears of a Russian invasion grow.
French President Emmanuel Macron is meeting Russian leader Vladimir Putin in Moscow, while US President Joe Biden hosts German Chancellor Olaf Scholz in Washington.
Russia currently has more than 100,000 troops massed on Ukraine's borders.
Western powers accuse the country of planning an invasion, something Russia has repeatedly denied.
US officials said on Sunday that Russia has assembled 70% of military forces needed for a full-scale invasion.
In recent weeks, Moscow has demanded that the Western military alliance Nato ban Ukraine from ever becoming a member, and that the group cuts its troop numbers in eastern Europe.
Nato has rejected both demands. It has instead suggested talks on other areas, such as limiting nuclear weapons.

• Ukraine: How big is Russia's military build-up?
• In the trenches, Ukraine's troops say: We're ready
• Kremlin media: Ukraine the aggressor, not Russia

The tensions between Russia, Ukraine and the West come nearly eight years after Russia annexed Ukraine's southern Crimea peninsula and backed a bloody rebellion in the eastern Donbas region.
Moscow accuses the Ukrainian government of failing to implement the Minsk agreement - an international deal sponsored by Germany and France to restore peace to the east, where Russian-backed rebels control swathes of territory and at least 14,000 people have been killed since 2014.

Macron 'hopes to avoid war'
The French president - who is expected to seek re-election in April - is speaking with Mr Putin in the Russian capital on Monday evening. The pair will then hold a joint news conference.
As talks began the Russian president praised Mr Macron for his efforts "to resolve the crisis" in Ukraine.
Mr Macron meanwhile said he hoped to "avoid a war", and that the talks aimed to de-escalate tensions and build "elements of confidence, stability and visibility for everyone".
France currently holds the rotating presidency of the EU. On Tuesday, Mr Macron will fly on to the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv, for talks with President Volodymyr Zelensky.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60292437

 

[Eskimo John]

This all sounds worryingly like Chamberlain's efforts in 1938/9.
Let's hope not, but I don't put much faith in the reliability of a world leader who likes to be photographed riding horses bare chested.
Like all blackmailers he will extort what he wants now and ask for more and more later.

 

[chthon]

What I don't like is the way the press has treated this since fall last year. For weeks, these Russian troops have been building up, but as far as I know they were already the same strength 6 months ago. And how far of the border are these troops? While I do not trust Putin, I have the impression that it is especially the press which kept up this message, and in the last weeks other politicians (including US ones) have been reacting to it.

The only message that politicians and diplomats should have kept repeating is: why do you want other countries to interfere with what Ukraine wants?

I mostly think that Putin does not want to be ignored. But if there are no problems between Russia and Europe, that is exactly what would happen. He would be mostly ignored when all goes well.

 

[Erik The Anglophile]

Russia won't invade the Ukraine, what would they gain from that? They also know what that would risk, they are not stupid, just look at Syria. Say what you want about the sides they pick but those guys know what they are doing.
The US is in internal shambles, they need an external enemy to rally the masses against, the same can be said to some extent for many Euro nations.
Sure Russia is a bad dictatorship and getting involved in Syria etc, but let's be real, what are they doing that US/NATO are not? The main reason for the renewed animosity between Russia and the West is because our leaders don't want competition and Russia is a good scare to use to divert attention.
The really scary guys are China, Trump was surprisingly right in that regard, that and to distrust corporate corrupt media. Unfortunately most of his fanbase failed to realise that applies to FOX aswell.

 

[Eskimo John]

Russia won't invade the Ukraine..... this assumes that Putin is a rational thinking man.
I am not so sure.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Russia won't invade the Ukraine..... this assumes that Putin is a rational thinking man.
I am not so sure.

I will second that, i don't think Putin is worried by what sanctions we may put on Russia he knows we will never attack Russia so he holds all the cards.

 

[Erik The Anglophile]

Russia won't invade the Ukraine..... this assumes that Putin is a rational thinking man.
I am not so sure.

He is definitely a rational thinking man. He is a ruthless dictator and a power hungry, manipulative supreme oligarch, but he is definitely not an idiot.

 

[Eskimo John]

Anyone who thinks it is OK to invade another country or part of another country is an idiot.
Crimea then Ukraine then what? Its not something new, Napoleon did it, Hitler did it and what did they ultimately gain from it? Only an shortened life and the waste of so many others lives. Idiots in my book.

 

[Obadiah Boondoggle]

Anyone who thinks it is OK to invade another country or part of another country is an idiot.
Crimea then Ukraine then what? Its not something new, Napoleon did it, Hitler did it and what did they ultimately gain from it? Only an shortened life and the waste of so many others lives. Idiots in my book.

Idiots they may be

But wouldn't it be useful for one high profile idiot in this country to do what Thatcher did to boost her popularity - send our young people half way across the world to the Falklands to counter her flagging popularity. I lost a good friend in that particular fracas

Please not again

 

[Eskimo John]

My best friend from school fought in the Falklands war. He survived it but it changed him forever.
I fear this is a different ball game. Its in a much bigger league. The best we can hope for has already happened, Cold War 2. The worst doesn't look good at all. For anyone. Anywhere in the world.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Logic say's if Russia does go in Ukraine has no chance without help from nato and' this is were the danger is, with the weapons of today it would soon lead to all out war which is terrifying

 

[DavidDetroit]

Being out of the loop with news, this seems like posturing. Does Russia have the wherewithal to carry its plan to completion? I'm guessing they don't. It appears to be a bluff. Russia's game has always been to rock the boat, make it seem like "being a free people" is bad. But what do I know?
Signed,
Someone who's stopped reading the depressing news but has put two and two together.

 

[Erik The Anglophile]

All I'm saying is it's easy to fall for the media induced hysteria and buy in to the whole "Putin and Russia bad, NATO good" narrative. The reality is a lot more complex, Russia feels threatened and cornered due to NATO expansion and I understand them to a degree, NATO has expanded eastwards despite the treaty made after Soviet fell. Because of this Russia wants to flex it's muscles "don't F with me, man" but does so in a rather childish way, NATO and UN with the US at the helm has a hard on for liberating people, especially in areas where there is a geopolitical and/or economic interest to do so and this coupled with a Russia getting back on it's feet and dreaming about the good old empire days creates a hot mess.
It's kinda like how the situation in Syria became a few years after the war started, or African civil wars.
It's hard to pinpoint the Arsehole when all factions involved are Arseholes...

 

[Leon103]

Russia are not invading, why be so overt about it? If their plan was to invade they would have just done it.

 

[Eskimo John]

Russia are not invading, why be so overt about it? If their plan was to invade they would have just done it.

Frankly this is quite nieve. To prepare armed forces for a such a huge operation takes a lot of time. The logistics behind such an operation are huge and impossible to hide from modern technology. The whole reason behind Western consern with this situation is the build up of Russian forces AND the reserves that are in place behind them. For a weeks military exercise you don't need to move reserves and materials into position in the quantities that western surveillance is seeing.

 

[Erik The Anglophile]

They likely want to stall any intervention against the seperatists they support, they have done this a few times during the conflict. Likely to secure industrial assets since it was an Industrial heartland during the Soviet era, and for political leverage. Then they will be thrown under the bus as is usually the case when big powers support various rebel groups.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

But wouldn't it be useful for one high profile idiot in this country to do what Thatcher did to boost her popularity

Does that mean Boris could save his arse by getting in first

 

[Eskimo John]

Boris wouldn't know where to find his ar**.

 

[Leon103]

Frankly this is quite nieve. To prepare armed forces for a such a huge operation takes a lot of time. The logistics behind such an operation are huge and impossible to hide from modern technology. The whole reason behind Western consern with this situation is the build up of Russian forces AND the reserves that are in place behind them. For a weeks military exercise you don't need to move reserves and materials into position in the quantities that western surveillance is seeing.

I again disagree and without going down that been there done that route, not military leader would position so many personnel and 'materials' in one position, and so close to enemy lines.
I maybe wrong, it's been a number of years since I last laced up my boots in battle.