Two-stepping yeast

[GerritT]

So here's the situation: I have a nice recipe for an ESB, a Capstone clone-sort-of. Now, the London ESB will leave a lot of residual sweetness so my idea was to let the ESB yeast work for about a week, and then pitch the 1118 to chew up the rest of the sugars for another week.
Is this too weird of an idea or might it work? Brewday is tomorrow, pitching will be on Monday, so not really in a hurry.

 

[Dutto]

I couldn't swear to it, but I think I've seen the use of two strains of yeast in an old recipe posted by Eddthebrew.

The logic your using seems okay to me. Not weird at all, just "experimental".

 

[simon12]

I don't have a clue really but am thinking you would be putting a new yeast in a small amount into a beer thats full of another yeast thats already eaten all the easy to chew food, but have no idea what this does in practice. Also wondered what you want it to do compared to pitching both yeasts at once or just the second one?

 

[GerritT]

First yeast for the profile, second yeast to clean up sugar.

 

[rank_frank]

I've accidentally done exactly this. I pitched S04 into an IPA that was a little stronger then anticipated at 1.074, It fermented to 1.019 and stopped so I pitched Mangrove Jack's M29 French Saison and it's down to 1.003 now. Too early to tell what it tastes like though.

 

[Simonh82]

I think the yeast will probably do what you want them to but do you not want a bit of body in your ESB?

 

[Scottyburto]

I am interested in this as I find quite a few of my previous brews have been too sweet! Some of that may have been impatience in previous fermentation!

 

[BeerCat]

This is why i am playing about with amylase. To get higher attenuation. So far managed to get 100% so need to tame it down a bit although was one of the best beers i have made.

 

[GerritT]

So here we are, 3 weeks further in the year. The brewing has happened and fermentation stalled after over 2 weeks at 1022-ish. As expected. So I racked to secondary (the smell, the SMELL) and added champagne yeast.
To be continued!

 

[brumbrew]

I'm sure I've also seen blended yeast types done before.

 

[Slid]

So here we are, 3 weeks further in the year. The brewing has happened and fermentation stalled after over 2 weeks at 1022-ish. As expected. So I racked to secondary (the smell, the SMELL) and added champagne yeast.
To be continued!
View attachment 16142View attachment 16143

I once added US 05 to a brew originally done with the Danstar London Yeast. I think A Sarah Hughes Ruby Mild. Was good and I re-used the yeast blend several times with good outcomes.

 

[Zephyr259]

I'm very curious about this because although it's common to add champagne yeast to a stalled fermentation, a lot of the time it doesn't seem to do anything. This supports what I've read about how they can't (or are very bad) at fermenting complex sugars, which makes sense given they are used to fermenting grape juice.

 

[Simonh82]

I've also heard that Champaign yeast are not good at fermenting complex sugars so I would be very interested to hear if it did reduce the final gravity. In my book, a good bet might be US-05 which will often hit 80% attenuation.

The issue now might be that champagne yeast and I believe the EC-118 is what some people call a 'killer yeast'. The Champagne yeast produces compounds which are toxic to other yeast or at least stop them functioning normally, so it might be hard to restart fermentation with a different higher attenuating yeast.

 

[GerritT]

If worst comes to worst, I'll still have a weakish sweetish very potable brew.
Bit annoying thing is, because there's already been some fermenting going on, the airlock doesn't respond really. At least, yesterday evening it was still quite level. I would've liked it to give off a few bloops, just for reassurance.

 

[Slid]

I've also heard that Champaign yeast are not good at fermenting complex sugars so I would be very interested to hear if it did reduce the final gravity. In my book, a good bet might be US-05 which will often hit 80% attenuation.

The issue now might be that champagne yeast and I believe the EC-118 is what some people call a 'killer yeast'. The Champagne yeast produces compounds which are toxic to other yeast or at least stop them functioning normally, so it might be hard to restart fermentation with a different higher attenuating yeast.

Re US 05 - I use US 05 as my go-to yeast and then re-use the trub by pouting it with some beer into as many as 6x250ml botlles, which will keep in the fridge for 3-4 months. Usually get nearer 85% attenuation with a 2wk + 1wh in primary / secondary before bottling.

 

[GerritT]

Meine Herrschaften, the results:

All the way down to 1010-ish. Where I expected it to land around 1015! Bottling day coming up, maybe leave work a bit early tomorrow.
Thank you for your attention, comments and the like!

 

[Slid]

I'm very curious about this because although it's common to add champagne yeast to a stalled fermentation, a lot of the time it doesn't seem to do anything. This supports what I've read about how they can't (or are very bad) at fermenting complex sugars, which makes sense given they are used to fermenting grape juice.

That is interesting. I would suggest that a very strong beer would usually be stored in bulk (as opposed to immediate bottling) for 6-12 months. In that event, a champagne yeast plus priming sugar might be the thing to add at bottling time?

 

[GerritT]

That is interesting. I would suggest that a very strong beer would usually be stored in bulk (as opposed to immediate bottling) for 6-12 months. In that event, a champagne yeast plus priming sugar might be the thing to add at bottling time?

A champagne yeast would work (assuming there is no original yeast left), Lallemand also has a special clean bottling yeast for that purpose. Clean and for higher alcohol levels.
For my purpose described earlier CBC wouldn't be necessary, and I had champagne yeast lying around anyway. Not for high alcohol levels, just for chewing away sugars.

 

[LeeH]

I have done it once on a stuck ferment on a Black IPA. The Windsor got fed up so I chucked in a trusty US05 to finish it off.

It turned out well with no off flavours just a clean finish so I presume the O5 did most of the work.

 

[Zephyr259]

@GerritT Glad the yeast worked and you've got a nice beer.

That is interesting. I would suggest that a very strong beer would usually be stored in bulk (as opposed to immediate bottling) for 6-12 months. In that event, a champagne yeast plus priming sugar might be the thing to add at bottling time?

This is what I did with my 9.3% belgian and 8.1% barleywine, 4 and 9 months respectively in a carboy then bottled with the Lallemand CBC-1 yeast. Bit of a faff as the dosage rate on the yeast is something like 0.1g/L (from memory) so the smaller carboys I use only need 1.2g yeast from a 10g sachet. In future I'll probably either use a wine yeast or just re-yeast assuming I still have the same strain on hand which I didn't with those 2, or just age in bottle since my carboys all have sours in them now.