Turbo Cider

[A T]

I did 21L of turbo cider today and pitched it with youngs champagne yeast. The apple juice was a mix of 3 supermarket brands, Aldi, Lidl, Dunnes and it started without any added sugar @ 1046. From what i believe the yeast will leave it very dry but as i'm not a cider drinker, is it better to be dry or sweet? Any suggestions would be appreciated as most of this will be given away :thumb:

 

[ni9e]

I like my cider dry but SWMBO likes it medium sweet so I bottle half straight from the FV and add splenda to whats left to sweeten it up a bit this way we both get a cider we like. If I was brewing it to give away i'd try and get it medium sweet and see what reaction you get unless you know that the people who are recieving the cider like it dry or sweet :hmm:

 

[Aleman]

The drier the better . . .Sweet Cider :sick:

 

[tubby_shaw]

Although I agree that dry Cider is the way forward :drink:
Just apple juice and Champagne yeast will leave a drink that's drier than a nuns crotch :shock:
As you will be giving most of it away and as most things we make are compared against commercial stuff I would add some Splenda or equivalent to up the sweetness a touch :thumb:

 

[A T]

That's great guys, how much splenda would you recommend for 21L to sweeten it up a bit. I was thinking about boiling it with the priming sugar and adding it to the bottling bucket.

 

[tubby_shaw]

I would add 10tsp. It's difficult to weigh the stuff

 

[A T]

Thanks TS :thumb:

 

[paulbrrtt]

sounding stupid but what is splenda

 

[Moley]

It's an artificial sweetener which is supposed not to taste like artificial sweetener, haven't used it myself but now I've seen the box on this link I'm sure Mrs. Mole's got one of those in our cupboard, I shall test it.


Edit: Just made myself a coffee using Splenda and it's quite acceptable, doesn't taste quite like sugar but certainly doesn't taste like saccharins. My TC was drier than a nun's crotch and I had to drink it with a splash of lemonade, but I think I may be tempted to start another batch after our hols and back-sweeten to medium-dry.

 

[jamesb]

It's 95% dextrose and 5% sucralose (a compound derived from normal sugar).

Personally I haven't found an artificial sweetner that I like yet. Mmmm. Aspartame :sick:

 

[Moley]

Oh now hang on a minute. Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I thought beers finished sweetish (1.010 OTA) because beer yeasties don't do dextrins, but wine fermented out to the .990s because wine yeasties do do dextrins?

My ‘A’ level Chemistry was 33 years ago. Although I can still remember quite a bit of the Organic stuff, what's the difference between ‘ins’ and ‘oses’?

Is this stuff 95% fermentable by wine/champagne yeasties, or is it just the 5% which is seriously sweet?

 

[leondz]

My ‘A’ level Chemistry was 33 years ago. Although I can still remember quite a bit of the Organic stuff, what's the difference between ‘ins’ and ‘oses’?

Generally, yeasts can't do the "in"s. A sweetener made of oses, with either wine or beer yeast, will (I reckon, this is guesswork, please shoot me down!) become eaten and end up dry. Possibly as dry as the crotch of that nun you often mention

 

[Aleman]

Wine yeasts don't do dextrins either.

Dextrins are short chain carbohydrates ( in beer short chains of maltose), generally 4 or more units long. Some/most yeasts are capable of fermenting Maltotriose (3 maltose units) slowly, and IIRC (I should go away and check) there are some that will ferment Maltotetrose (3 maltose units) but there are none that ferment maltopentose and above.

Maltotetrose and maltotriose are 'sweet' . . . not as sweet as sucrose but they are sweet.

Dextrose is a form of glucose IIRC . . . but that particular optical isomer does not taste sweet at all . . . I would imagine the sucralose (a trade name not a real name) must taste incredibly sweet. . . . and of course as it is not a carbohydrate will not be fermentable by yeast

Why do wine and cider yeasts ferment drier? . . . it is all down to the sugars, most fruits are rich in glucose and fructose which are easily fermentable . . . but the 'musts' do not contain a high level of nutrients and wine yeasts are more capable of fermenting in that environment than beer yeasts . . . Therefore beer yeasts stop fermenting turbo earlier than the cider and wine yeasts . . . My lager yeast fermented TC stopped at 1.000 . . . still below what it would ferment in a wort, but not all that much higher than a cider yeast would have done (0.996)

 

[Moley]

Thanks Aleman, with what you've just written and what I'd already gone away to google it makes sense to me now, I think.

Yes, dextrose (or d-glucose) is a stereoisomer of glucose (for non-chemists it's just the same bits put together ****-about-face), whereas dextrin is an H2O short of dextrose but linked together in a chain.


And Leon, I've only mentioned that nun once, Tubby started it. I wouldn't really know, he's obviously more experienced in such matters.

 

[tubby_shaw]

And Leon, I've only mentioned that nun once, Tubby started it. I wouldn't really know, he's obviously more experienced in such matters.

Once again my reputation precedes me :lol:

 

[wurzel]

I know of another brewing forum where all this talk of nuns crotches would have resulted in several warnings from the mods by now if not suspension of accounts lol :lol:

 

[ano]

Well it's a bit of a faux pas to have to warn your mod heh.

 

[wurzel]

Well it's a bit of a faux pas to have to warn your mod heh.

Very true.....like it that admin are nice and chilled on here

 

[Moley]

Why do wine and cider yeasts ferment drier? . . . it is all down to the sugars, most fruits are rich in glucose and fructose which are easily fermentable . . . but the 'musts' do not contain a high level of nutrients and wine yeasts are more capable of fermenting in that environment than beer yeasts . . . Therefore beer yeasts stop fermenting turbo earlier than the cider and wine yeasts . . . My lager yeast fermented TC stopped at 1.000 . . . still below what it would ferment in a wort, but not all that much higher than a cider yeast would have done (0.996)

So taking this to the extreme, beer yeasts would not be impressed by a wine 'must', cider yeasts are somewhere in the middle, but wine yeasties would have a major party in a beer wort? They might leave the dextrins alone but they'd have a much better go at everything else? Not quite back to the convent but heading in that direction?

 

[Aleman]

Correct which is why, if you want a really well attenuated High Gravity beer it is often recommended to pitch a champagne yeast if the original ale yeast finishes higher than the brewer was expecting . . . . Personally with sound brewing practice, pitching enough ale yeast into a well aerated wort, and additional nutrient I've never had the issue