Trump on the NHS.

[Covrich]

The main problem the NHS faces is not caused by lack of exercise or poor diet, and particularly not by poor people. It's caused by age, which we can't do anything about, and a policy of cutting public services based on an entirely discredited study.

Age is a big problem sadly

Wife works where there is a lot of old poorly people, a lot of which their brain is mush and they have no quality of life, yet advancements in medicine are keeping them alive for longer even if they cannot move or feed or anything..

Controversial I know but if these were domestic pets they would be made not to suffer.

 

[Gunge]

Then they will live longer and cost the NHS even more

I can't understand this quest for eternal life...' don't smoke / drink / eat red meat etc etc and you'll have another 3 years'. Ye... the adult nappy and nursing home years. I'm a very sprightly 53 yrs but sometimes think I'm ready for the bullet.

 

[Dexter101]

A friend of mine is very much into his health and one of the points he makes is that the way he lives is not so that he can extend his life expectancy but so that the years he does have he is able to live them healthily, making the most of time. Not really sure what point I am trying to make other than sometimes it seems like people want to live forever, even if that forever doesn't allow them to do anything.

Overpopulation really is the problem causing everything especially as more people doesn't generate any extra money as their is a finite amount in the world. Would be great to see this openly accepted and for politicians to actually plan for the world we have in front of us, rather than forcing out of date political views to continue causing problems.

 

[Gunge]

Overpopulation really is the problem causing everything especially as more people doesn't generate any extra money as their is a finite amount in the world.

That's cos of all these medical advances and health freaks hell-bent on immortality!

 

[MyQul]

That's cos of all these medical advances and health freaks hell-bent on immortality!

Bloody Penicillin :mad1:

 

[Gunge]

Bloody Penicillin :mad1:

Lol! Bring back the Black Death! But y'know I mean the quest to extend life when it is already on borrowed time, not treating acute diseases and conditions which strike folk otherwise in their prime.

 

[-Bezza-]

With regard to the sale of people's homes to fund their care, please bear in mind that 99% of the elderly and infirm people in the UK who own their own homes have worked their nuts off for a lifetime, paid whatever the government asked of them in the form of Taxes and NI Contributions and then scrimped and saved to purchase their own home. If they need care now they have already paid into the system!

Yes, they have paid for their houses, not their children. Also, should I pay my taxes to fund the healthcare of those who already have a home whilst struggling to afford one myself, just so their children can inherit something for nothing?

 

[MyQul]

Lol! Bring back the Black Death! But y'know I mean the quest to extend life when it is already on borrowed time, not treating acute diseases and conditions which strike folk otherwise in their prime.

I cant remeber the exact figures but the WHO predictions for future population in the coming decades is ridiculous. Ironically enough I think over population will lead to the extintion of our species

 

[-Bezza-]

I cant remeber the exact figures but the WHO predictions for future population in the coming decades is ridiculous. Ironically enough I think over population will lead to the extintion of our species

That's not new thinking - have a look at the Malthusian Theory of Population :thumb:

 

[Dexter101]

That's not new thinking - have a look at the Malthusian Theory of Population :thumb:

Or Inferno by Dan Brown

 

[Thumper]

A friend of mine is very much into his health and one of the points he makes is that the way he lives is not so that he can extend his life expectancy but so that the years he does have he is able to live them healthily, making the most of time.

Yuhp, there's a difference between life expectancy and healthy life expectancy. I understand wanting to extend the latter, which by mecessity I suppose would extend the former, but I don't want to extend the years in which I have trouble doing things for myself.

 

[Dutto]

Age is a big problem sadly

.........

Hey! Why "sadly"?

I agree that dementia is a terrible disease but many of us are happy to have reached "old age".

My particular generation can still remember when people who reached their "three score years and ten" were venerated and NOT seen as a drain on society.

The problem is NOT the fact that people are living longer it's that today's society is allowing the elderly and infirm to be demonised and made to feel bad.

Oh dear, the young are expected to look after the old. Well let me remind you all that this situation is not a new thing, it has been the norm since time began.

May I also point out the fact that the good life that the young in our society enjoy today has been provided by US and without what previous generations did for YOU the country would be an even bigger mess than it is now!

Things have to change and one of the changes is to stop demonising the elderly and infirm in our society!

 

[Gunge]

I agree that dementia is a terrible disease but many of us are happy to have reached "old age".

People with dementia won't be aware that they've reached old age ( whatever that is, these days ).

 

[Dutto]

Yes, they have paid for their houses, not their children. Also, should I pay my taxes to fund the healthcare of those who already have a home whilst struggling to afford one myself, just so their children can inherit something for nothing?

Back in the 1960's there was a time when the UK had full employment, people could afford to buy their own homes if they worked hard enough; and if they couldn't afford to buy then they could rent decent social housing at an affordable rate with rights of tenancy for life as long as they kept paying their rent.

Whilst buying your own home generally meant a period of scrimping and saving for most of us, it was seen as a better option because the houses tended to be in better areas. At the time I bought my own first house (a two bedroom bungalow costing £2,200) I was away at sea and my wife and two children were living in a flat above a Dry Cleaning business. It wasn't easy to pay the mortgage and provide for my family on £12.11.8d a week but if I stayed away at sea long enough we could afford it.

I didn't do this on my own! My children were part of the "scrimping and saving" and had to live through the fact that their Dad was working away from home for most of the time they we're growing up. They sure as hell won't be "inheriting something for nothing".

As a small example, my children were 6 and 8 years old before Dad spent a whole Christmas Day with them and by the time they were 12 and 14 Dad was working on a "three months away - six days at home" contract.

The old adage "Sow the wind and you will reap the whirlwind." has never been as apt as it is today. IMO the UK public is about to reap the whirlwind that they sowed many years ago; even before Brexit!

 

[Thumper]

@Dutto

No one's demonizing the elderly and infirm, let alone making them feel bad for being old. But the simple fact of the matter is that an ageing society is one if the greatest challenges our NHS faces. In fact, it's one of the greatest challenges our economy faces.

I don't think any reasonable person would suggest we do not support our elderly. But there's a finite number of adults of working age, and they can only work so long and produce so much. If the graph becomes too top-heavy, then we will find ourselves in a situation where it simply will not be possible to support our elderly. That's a problem we need to address.

It's all very well to say that back in your day the elderly were well supported- back in your day, there were relatively much fewer pensioners compared to working adults. Supporting them properly was much easier. Theres a reason I'll be forced to work until I'm 85.

 

[-Bezza-]

And compare that to today where both mum and dad need to be working full time to stand any chance of being able to buy a house (thanks to the house price inflation that the baby boomer generation enjoyed), all in the absence of decent and affordable rented accommodation.

Hopefully your children will remember the sacrifices you made and pay for a decent level of healthcare in your old age, rather than relying on what will be an underfunded and substandard level. Because I don't want to be paying for it! :no: :cheers1:

 

[-Bezza-]

@Dutto
I don't think any reasonable person would suggest we do not support our elderly.

I would suggest we support those in need, and being elderly doesn't automatically mean being in need. Everyone who has the ways or means of supporting themselves should do so. If someone who could support themselves chooses not to, that's when they have become a burden on society.

 

[Thumper]

In 1985, the average house in the UK cost 3.4x the average yearly wage. In 2005, it was 6.1x, and it's gone up since. In London, it's now something like 9.5x the average yearly wage in London. And yet we have nobby Australian millionaires telling my generation that the reason we can't afford houses is because we like avocados.

 

[Covrich]

Yeah I badly worded the Age problem, but an Aging population which a lot of people are being kept alive with poor quality of life not trying to demonise Old people at all..

It is about sustainability, its easy for people about to retire some of which actually laugh and poke fun at the fact we will be working into our 70s but there isn't enough of us to support everything and everyone being kept alive even when they are husks with no quality of life..

My Nan is in hospital herself broken ankle, she is 85 and has all her bearings completely sane, her body and mobility is a problem but her mind is fine.. She is in a bay in the hospital with 5 other patients 4 of which are bed ridden and have no concept of what is happening.

I know and am sure it was tough back when retired people were earning and trying to save for a property, but it is even harder now and to be honest I really fear for my kids.

 

[terrym]

For me, the only "stigma" around private health care is that the companies use NHS Hospitals, NHS Wards, NHS Operating Rooms, NHS Doctors, Consultants and Surgeons, NHS Nurses and Auxiliary Staff to carry out their operations ...:wave:... but don't pay for building NHS Hospitals, Equipping NHS Operating Theatres, Training NHS Doctors, Consultants and Surgeons or Training NHS Nurses and Staff. In synopsis, Private Healthcare Companies in the UK are parasitical organisations that feed off the NHS; and like most parasites, they don't kill their host they just feed off it and weaken it.

If what you say is true, and I'm not sure it is, then then it is surely the responsibilitity of the NHS is to ensure that the private medical companies who use NHS facilities to conduct their business pay for the priviledge at the appropriate rate which should include all the indirect costs you mention i.e the NHS should manage the situation like any other business would. If the NHS doesn't do that then it is at fault, and any 'blame' therefore cannot be loaded up onto the private medical companies.