Trub?

[venkman100]

Was looking to do my first proper brew with my brand new Robobrew today but life got in the way, so delayed to Sunday or Monday, but that's ok...
Watched lots of videos and relatively happy about the process. One thing bothering me is the trub after the boil. Some people say this should not go into the fermenter, but I also see most Robobrew users use the pump to get the brew into the FV. With the pump taking the liquid from the very bottom, it will take the trub first. They usually stop the pump when the Robobrew is empty, so the FV has it all. Does this matter? Thank you...

 

[foxy]

Depends on their FV if its a conical they can drop the trub. My advice, get as clean a wort as possible into the FV and you will get a clear beer out.

 

[venkman100]

Thanks Foxy. Looked around before I asked and could not find info. Looked again afterwards and found a thread you had already been involved in regarding this same issue. Sorry I missed it before asking. I'll try to minimise it, just not sure how with my setup. I will research it more...

 

[fury_tea]

Thanks Foxy. Looked around before I asked and could not find info. Looked again afterwards and found a thread you had already been involved in regarding this same issue. Sorry I missed it before asking. I'll try to minimise it, just not sure how with my setup. I will research it more...

My advice is don't worry about it too much. I used to transfer everything to the fermenter and got some pretty clear beers with patience, geletin and cold crash. There's even some evidence to support some trub matter being beneficial to the yeast by adding some extra nutrients. The negative is that you lose more beer in the fermenter due to not being able to get it out without pints of trub, but it's a play off between more beer or clear beer.

I got a whirlpool arm (the 30L brew devil one) for the robo and use that to whirlpool while chilling. Then leave it to settle for 20 mins and transfer from the tap not the pump. Think it cost about 25-30 quid. You do end up with clearer wort but even then you still lose some wort in the kettle, so I just make my recipe a few litres bigger than I want.

 

[Grealish]

My advice is don't worry about it too much. I used to transfer everything to the fermenter and got some pretty clear beers with patience, geletin and cold crash. There's even some evidence to support some trub matter being beneficial to the yeast by adding some extra nutrients. The negative is that you lose more beer in the fermenter due to not being able to get it out without pints of trub, but it's a play off between more beer or clear beer.

I got a whirlpool arm (the 30L brew devil one) for the robo and use that to whirlpool while chilling. Then leave it to settle for 20 mins and transfer from the tap not the pump. Think it cost about 25-30 quid. You do end up with clearer wort but even then you still lose some wort in the kettle, so I just make my recipe a few litres bigger than I want.

Yes it's easy to get hung up on the minutiae, as was said previously, 'I was under the impression that 300 years ago the beer would have been pretty awful but there were 47,550 publican brewers and 780 common brewers. So with all that competition the beer couldn't have been all that bad. Could it.' If you want commercial beer, buy it. If you want something authentic, make it yourself.

 

[foxy]

Thanks Foxy. Looked around before I asked and could not find info. Looked again afterwards and found a thread you had already been involved in regarding this same issue. Sorry I missed it before asking. I'll try to minimise it, just not sure how with my setup. I will research it more...

Sometimes its best to do your own research than throw out questions on the forum and also try both ways and see for yourself, you are only just starting and you will want to keep improving your methods as you move forward. Start here.
https://www.google.com/search?q=tru...ome..69i57.11953j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[venkman100]

Thanks for that, I did think about the tap. I have noticed some people using it but most do not. It means you have to have the Robobrew up high but that is no problem... Thanks, I may well give that a go.

 

[venkman100]

Thanks to all of you for your help. I really appreciate it.

 

[An Ankoù]

I don't worry and fret about trub the way I used to. Since I started doing smaller cooker-top trial batches, my beer goes from the boiling kettle through a muslin bag stretched over the perforated section of a large vegetable steamer and into the FV. I always use some leaf hops to act as a kind of filter bed, but at the end I give the bag a good squeeze anyway.
When I started doing this, I thought I'd have clarity or flavour issues, but the finished beer is as good and as clear as my full-scale productions. However, as soon as the yeast head and the trub and hop debris have settled at the bottom of the vessel, about 6-7 days, I rack the beer into a clean fermenting vessel and leave all that stuff behind.

 

[robster62]

I use the tap on my robobrew. I use it on a table about a foot high and have no problem emptying it.

 

[Dexter101]

Try with and without and see what you think.

No idea on the robobrew but if it takes through the trub first, couldnt you just get rid of first couple of litres and then put rest in the fv?

Personally I dump the whole boil in, however thate because I no chill at the moment and want the hot wort in the fv.

If I had a chiller i would probably leave most of the trub behind if it was easy to do.

There are lots of variables that may or may not affect your beer, part of the fun of brewing for me if working out what works best for me whilst still producing good beer.

 

[chthon]

I don't worry and fret about trub the way I used to. Since I started doing smaller cooker-top trial batches, my beer goes from the boiling kettle through a muslin bag stretched over the perforated section of a large vegetable steamer and into the FV. I always use some leaf hops to act as a kind of filter bed, but at the end I give the bag a good squeeze anyway.
When I started doing this, I thought I'd have clarity or flavour issues, but the finished beer is as good and as clear as my full-scale productions. However, as soon as the yeast head and the trub and hop debris have settled at the bottom of the vessel, about 6-7 days, I rack the beer into a clean fermenting vessel and leave all that stuff behind.

Hehe, "great minds think alike"?
Since last summer I do the same. If I have extra sugar adjuncts, I keep them (partially) apart, so that I can rack through fluid to secondary, and to be sure that any oxygen is rapidly expelled.

 

[Grealish]

'Sometimes its best to do your own research than throw out questions on the forum'... that's the spirit, forums aren't there for you to ask for advice from like minded people with a bit more experience than yourself.

 

[DavidDetroit]

I agree with the mentions above that you should try it both ways. I did. I didn't notice any difference in flavor or clarity from either method though I really expected the removal to be far better and was prejudiced in that direction.
What I did notice was that I got 24 oz of hop goo, at the very least, and this was only from 4 ounces (113g) of hops which amazed me. This amount was even after I pressed the hop matter against the strainer to release liquid into the fermenter. When I topped up to 5 gallons (19L), the additional water that replaced the trub thew my OG off by a decent amount in the wrong direction.
Edit: My solution is to up the ingredients ever so slightly to adjust for SG.

 

[chthon]

And fermenting in my boiler kettle, that is one of the reasons for me to only use hop pellets any more.

I did once a dry hop with hop pellets, and that succeeded, so when my last hop flowers are gone, only hop pellets.

 

[venkman100]

Well, my big brew looks likely for Monday. A few weeks ago I got impatient and after seeing a thread on here for 1 gallon AG brews, I had a go. I did post regarding my efforts. But regarding the trub etc, all sorts went into the demijohn. No fining agents, nothing. Bottled it 3 days ago and this is it today. Got to be good and wait now, in my fermenting cupboard, then wait till Xmas I think...

 

[foxy]

'Sometimes its best to do your own research than throw out questions on the forum'... that's the spirit, forums aren't there for you to ask for advice from like minded people with a bit more experience than yourself.

I would always encourage folk to do there own research, open up their analytical mind, ask on a forum and there can be good answers, and bad answers. Or those who point the questioner to the pseudo bull tish science of Brulosophy.
Far easier these days to Google answers from pro's and experts and weigh them up, saves a lot of confusion.
A quote from How to Brew, probably the best basic brewing book on the market.

'In general however, removal of most of the break, either by careful pouring from the pot or by racking to another fermenter, is necessary to achieve the cleanest tasting beer. If you are trying to make a very pale beer such as Pilsener style lager, the removal of most of the hot and cold break can make a significant difference.'

 

[An Ankoù]

I would always encourage folk to do there own research,

Or those who point the questioner to the pseudo bull tish science of Brulosophy.

http://brulosophy.com/2014/06/02/the-great-trub-exbeeriment-results-are-in/
I read your post before turning in and spent a good half an hour before getting up wondering how I would conduct my own research into this. My conclusion was remarkably similar to the Brulosophy experiment above except I wouldn't bother with all the statistical jiggery-pokery. However, I think Marshall made a poor choice of beer to experiment with. I would have gone for a pilsner, I would have used whole hops in the boil and 15 minutes before flameout in an effort to keep extraneous hop material out of the cloudier wort and skewing the eventual flavour. I'd also have used something delicate like one of the low alpha German "noble" hops or Stisselspalt. I think that would push the experiment to its limit. Like Marshall, I have also observed that the descending yeast head covers the trub layer. Bright clear wort looks attractive, muddy wort doesn't, but maybe making these proteins available to the yeast is beneficial.
Over my decades of home-brewing many practices, which I adhered to with almost religious fervour, have been blown out of the water- for example recycling the wort through the grain bed until it runs clear. Received wisdom is that this improves the flavour by removing particles which would otherwise give a tannin twang to the beer if left in the boil. Brew in the bag has knocked all that on the head! Are BIB beers inferior? I haven't heard any reports that they are. Another is that the sparge water must be several degrees hotter than the mash temperature: I've found it makes little if any difference- I was in a hurry on the last full brew (because it was freezing, I had to poor hot water on the gas regulator and taps in otder to get the burners to light) so I just drew off water from the domestic hot water supply, stuck a bit of Campden tablet in it and sparged away with the same efficiency as hitherto.
I suspect that home brewing literature in the English speaking world had become somewhat hidebound with the US and British authors reading each other and giving assent to traditional (and therefore orthodox) practices (with the exception perhaps of Randy Mosher). Palmer is just a compendium of this "wisdom". The home brewing practices coming out of Australia, on the other hand, have been a breath of fresh air.
The Australians have got a lot to answer for! :hat:

 

[fury_tea]

"If you are trying to make a very pale beer such as Pilsener style lager -Palmer".

I think Marshall made a poor choice of beer to experiment with.

If you are making a pilsner, which is arguably a difficult style to get right for a beginner, due to being quite delicate and not having much to 'hide behind', then sure, aim for the clearest wort possible. Otherwise, my advice is still don't worry about it too much.
It really depends on your goal. Do you want to make drinkable and enjoyable beer? Then go ahead and do that without worrying to much about the minutia. It's actually difficult to make very bad beer if you stick to the basic rules.
Do you want to create very technically correct beers indistinguishable from that of the professionals? Then spend time refining your technique and buying the necessary equipment to achieve that goal.

The end point is often the same though. The beer gets drunk and so do you.

 

[Grealish]

I would always encourage folk to do there own research, open up their analytical mind, ask on a forum and there can be good answers, and bad answers. Or those who point the questioner to the pseudo bull tish science of Brulosophy.
Far easier these days to Google answers from pro's and experts and weigh them up, saves a lot of confusion.
A quote from How to Brew, probably the best basic brewing book on the market.

'In general however, removal of most of the break, either by careful pouring from the pot or by racking to another fermenter, is necessary to achieve the cleanest tasting beer. If you are trying to make a very pale beer such as Pilsener style lager, the removal of most of the hot and cold break can make a significant difference.'

A very valid argument. We should all do our research first and, only if that fails, come on here to receive the divine wisdom of the chosen few. There should be two new forum rules 1) make sure you have researched thoroughly before posting a question. Post it humbly and with trembling anticipation of the 100% correct answer you will receive. 2) only persons who have thoroughly immersed themselves in the received wisdom of brewing and are willing to quote the most hallowed sources should be allowed to answer these questions. The pragmatic experiences of the community of active brewers on this site, based on nothing more relevant than their own sensory perceptions, is to be firmly dismissed.

Oh, rule three. Brewing is a deadly serious activity and in no way something you should undertake lightheartedly. The fact you have produced something you and your friends REALLY enjoy is worthless if you broke one of the sacred tenets.