to HERMS it, RIMS it, or just go Shiny??

[BigYin]

I'm in the very early stages of planning to upgrade my brewhouse - The Mrs wants me to relocate the brewing out of the house somehow, so I see this as the perfect opportunity to think about building something a bit bigger :mrgreen:

I'm not sure of the advantages of either a HERMS or RIMS system, while there clearly is a higher setup cost :hmm:

I could replicate my current method in nice shiny stainless, and keep it all on the level with the help of a pump or two....

Main thing will be to up the brewlength to around 40-50 litres :drink:

Thoughts please :mrgreen:

I'm in no rush to complete the job, as I have a working plastic brewery, but I do love to tinker and build stuff, so the call of the Shiny is gradually winning over!

Biggest constraint will be budget, but that just means I'll have to be more patient and not rush it

 

[31bb3]

Herms is just personal preference tbh I've only just installed it and had no issues SS is defiantly the way to go if your planning an upgrade I'm not sure if herms improves efficiency it saves recirculting the mash after the mash time

 

[damfoose]

Me waves hand in Jedi like fashion " It is the shiny your looking for "

In all seriousness go SS it is so much easier to keep clean and sanitise :twisted:

 

[BigYin]

I'm definately planning to move up to SS, the question really is to make a bigger system than I have, but in SS - or to also build said new SS brewery as a HERMS or RIMS ?

I get a pretty good efficiency with my plastic fantastic setup, so not sure if there's any huge advantage to going the HERMS/RIMS route - but I do want nice shiny SS, and I do want a bigger brewlength :mrgreen:

 

[Aleman]

Do what I did, and make the HERMS unit seperate . . .then you can brew without HERMS or With HERMS depending on what takes you fancy.

So Go Stainless . ..With pumps to keep it on one level and add HERMS later on. :thumb: :thumb:

 

[31bb3]

Do what I did, and make the HERMS unit seperate . . .then you can brew without HERMS or With HERMS depending on what takes you fancy.

So Go Stainless . ..With pumps to keep it on one level and add HERMS later on. :thumb: :thumb:

+1 for Alemans explination

 

[craigite]

I'm on a budget too, there's no way I can justify the shiny option.
As you say the tinkering is half the fun.
My HERMS is a copper coil in a kettle, so I can take it out of the loop if I want. everything is plastic or copper.

This system works great for me. Efficiency is easly 80% and I can get an even temp through the mash tun to one deg easly and I can raise up to 76 before sparge in ten minutes easly.

 

[adomant]

IMO Upgrading to ss is much bigger value for you money than herms/rims. For bigger volumes, ss is significantly better than plastic. I respect the opinions of folk that do herms, but I have yet to be convinced that the extra complication/cost produces better results.

 

[Vossy1]

I respect the opinions of folk that do herms

:thumb:

but I have yet to be convinced that the extra complication/cost produces better results.

You will never be convinced, and rightly so, because IT DOESN'T
It's simply a different way of producing the same great beer but with the added fun of spending lots of cash and fiddling :lol: :thumb:

Seriously though it does make certain things easier, stepped mashed for one

 

[StubbsPKS]

Isn't HERMS/RIMS just a way of regulating your mash temp? This means no adding boiled water if your temp drops too low. It could also mean mashout is very easily achieved in theory.

I don't know because I don't run a system like this (far from it with my awesome plastic :thumb:), but it seems like it would be a nice addition for more complicated mashing techniques.

 

[Vossy1]

Isn't HERMS/RIMS just a way of regulating your mash temp? This means no adding boiled water if your temp drops too low.

Yes, and it also allows you to produce crystal clear wort without the need for recircing at the end of the mash, as it's already been done during the mash. Some folk only use their HERMS system to clarify the run off just before the end of the mash, ie, last 10 mins.

It could also mean mashout is very easily achieved in theory.

It does save a small amount of time due to no recirc being needed to clear the wort, and running off is very easy, just a case of diverting the flow to the copper.

 

[evanvine]

Seriously though it does make certain things easier, stepped mashed for one

That is all I use my HERMS for, clear wort going into the boiler is not one of my considerations.

 

[StubbsPKS]

My dream setup includes HERMS, but who knows when/if that'll become a reality. There are just so many other things I'd rather upgrade first :)

 

[evanvine]

My dream setup includes HERMS, but who knows when/if that'll become a reality. There are just so many other things I'd rather upgrade first

Quite right too!
I only built mine to prove to myself I could do it.

 

[Vossy1]

I only built mine to prove to myself I could do it.

Envy and lust spring to mind :whistle: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

clear wort going into the boiler is not one of my considerations

Why would that be then :wha:

 

[evanvine]

Envy and lust spring to mind

Yes I do both of those!

Why would that be then

Cos it all drops out in the ferment.

 

[BigYin]

:lol: Thank you all for your comments - although I have to say I'm no further forward in my decision making :lol: :whistle:

Could some knowledgeable person please explain exactly how HERMS works, and exactly how RIMS works? (and then they can copy it into the Glossary, where there is a complete lack of explanation!)

There's no rush (yet) since we still haven't even reached agreement on where all this is to go...

Whatever it is, it'll all be nice shiny.

If the brewery is going to be outside, or almost outside, then I'm considering having a mix of leccy and gas power for it, and the only thing certain (apart from the shiny) is that with the bigger brewlength, there will be pump(s) involved to avoid to much lifting :thumb:

 

[BarnsleyBrewer]

I LOVE MY HERMS

 

[Vossy1]

Cos it all drops out in the ferment.

Cloudy wort contains protein in the particulate. If this particulate is boiled, a lot of the protein will dissolve (for want of a better word) and react with other substances during the boil. This makes more complicated protein complexes which create issues with clarity (haze) and storage (reduces). These do not drop out in the ferment, ways to get rid of them is to chill the beer or fine it, or if you have the money filter it out.
Why would you put yourself in this position when when it's so easy to get clear runnings going into the boiler :wha:

Sorry for the aside BY :thumb:

Could some knowledgeable person please explain exactly how HERMS works, and exactly how RIMS works? (and then they can copy it into the Glossary, where there is a complete lack of explanation!)

I think it would take up most of the glossary :lol: When we started the G it was about keeping bullet points and the forum was for answering the questions. Also at the time a lot of us had new HERMS and for myself, didn't feel confident in advising others.

The question of HERMS keeps cropping up and to have a topic which explains it would be a good idea, we'll give that some thought, thank you :thumb:

EDIT BB :rofl:

 

[StubbsPKS]

I don't know if I can follow the gigantic pink heart, but I'll give a crack at the HERMS/RIMS thing.

Disclaimer: This is all based on my understanding from the bits and bobs I've read!

HERMS and RIMS basically achieve the same thing. In fact, HERMS is just a type of RIMS.

They are able to achieve:

1. Clear Wort
2. Temperature Control of the Mash

RIMS (Recirculating Infusion Mash System):
In this system, the wort is constantly being recirculated to the top of the grain bed. The temperature of the mash is controlled by passing the wort through some sort of heater. Most things I have read have said that RIMS is a directly heated system (i.e. the wort is in direct contact with the heating element).

HERMS (Heat Exchanged Recirculating Mash System):
In a HERMS system the mash is recirculated through a copper coil in a heat exchanger. This heat exchanger can be your HLT or a separate container.
The way it works is you heat up water in the heat exchanger and as the wort passes through the copper coil, it heats up as well. It is the reverse of an IC essentially.

I've got a couple of links I found really quickly on google as well.
Clicky 1
Clicky 2