Time to make alcohol!?

[ssashton]

Thanks for all the info.

There does seem to be a lot of misinformation about sanitizers.

For a start, is soap really more effective than alcohol if you are not actually washing hands, but using it just as a leave-on hand treatment? I would guess not, but dunno.

I read a news article saying non-alcohol sanitizers may not / are not effective against covid-19, but I also found a more scientific paper comparing disinfectants on SARS-CoV and found them all to be effective including benzalkonium chloride (the active disinfectant in Detol surface sanitizer). It said isopropyl had an immediate effect.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15923059/

 

[ssashton]

P.S. regarding StarSan I'm Just thinking about if things get tough. I have enough concentrate make a good many liters of sanitizer.

 

[foxy]

Problem with using alcohol, and it's the same in brewing, is it is effective for maybe a few minutes as it evaporates so quickly, probably the reason it is mixed with a gel to keep it active longer.
A bad idea using a starsan style product, for wiping down bench tops etc I would think maybe quartenary ammonia would be far cheaper, safer and just as good.

 

[Drunkula]

I seem to remember a member saying you can also make some nasty stuff if you try freeze distilling

Yeah, I remember that. Me and a few others put them right about that load of tripe.

Just in case people don't know if you freeze distill something then it's exactly the same amount of danger as the original drink it was made from. If there's methanol you're concentrating its antidote - ethanol - at exactly the same ratio that they existed in the first place. They can't be separated by freezing. It's one of those myths that needs to die. It's like saying you'll die of salt poisoning if you crush down your crisp sandwiches. Oh no - before there was 0.4g of salt per 2 centimetre of sandwich - now there's 0.4g in only half a centimetre! Weeeza gunna dieeeeee!

And you get the idea with that.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

But the comment about making poison … who cares, I don't think the intention is to drink it! But it's illegal and so a non-starter.

I think that was more a warning to others who may think this a good idea.

 

[GerritT]

.

I seem to remember a member saying you can also make some nasty stuff if you try freeze distilling which isn't illegal.

Luke-warm distilling is also an idea.

But yeah: plain soap and proper hygiene protocols are sufficient. Just like you were taught when you were 2.

 

[peebee]

… So I watched the video @Drunkula posted. And went with that. Getting the BAC50 was no problem, nor glycerine, but the foaming dispensers have been snapped up although some might turn up end of next week? I think the "foaming" is just economy and no harm just spraying on the diluted (0.1%) stuff. Except! It has not been proven to be effective and probably isn't. But as some (who know?) say; it's better than nothing. eBay have taken down all "no alcohol" sanitiser adverts that claim to be effective against coronavirus. I'll have to make do with my tiny quantity of isopropyl alcohol (which is supposedly better than 60% ethanol, and 40% ethanol or vodka is useless). …

Well, I did say check the facts!

It's 70% alcohol, not 60%, that is reckoned to be effective. And the 99.9% isopropanol alcohol is best diluted 'cos there's some weird reason why high percentage alcohol isn't so effective. And then if you buy 99.9% isopropanol off eBay or Amazon, how do you know its is 99.9%, or even alcohol at all? Criminals are having a ball with all this panic.

The BAC50 caper, which probably isn't effective (?), has the same problem (is it or isn't it) but at least you can spray some moss with it and check if it dies! The dilution is important and the guy in the video admits he began by calculating it wrong. He makes a 1% solution with 20ml of the stuff (at 50% concentration) in 1 litre of water but dilutes it in the spray bottle (1 part in 9 ideally, to make a 0.1% solution). But reckons he was using 1% for ages so if you want to risk blisters, dermatitis, etc. … This stuff (if what you've got is what you think it is, and if it is effective which it may not be) has the advantage over alcohol in that it doesn't create a burning sensation on broken skin; it was (is still?) used in contact lens wash solutions but in much lower concentrations.

I wonder if you can use the stuff as a brewery no-rinse sanitiser after this "event" and you're left with loads of the stuff? Of course, that's if you survive the "event" or the quack avoidance advise!

 

[peebee]

What did I say about criminals having a ball at the moment?

1L BAC50 ordered from Amazon (Chemical Superstore seller, UK) and 1L of Acetone delivered. I might get my money back if I'm lucky? But I guess I wont be seeing any BAC50.

Now I wonder if this "99.9%" Isopropanol Amazon have sent really is what they say. Doesn't smell like petrol, wonder what happens with this lighted match …

:tinhat:


(The other option is just don't go out and don't let anyone in. Government advise seems to be heading that way. Oh but I'm all in favour of brewing alcohol for the isolation period, I'll just keep it to decent beer brewing and drink it!).

Someone sent me a good video on the situation (WARNING: Some not so good language, but does hide a good message and has been very well made. And no alcohol or BAC50 but a good bit of loo paper!).

 

[gb0wers]

I seem to remember a member saying you can also make some nasty stuff if you try freeze distilling which isn't illegal.

If a member said that "freeze distilling" isn't illegal, I'm afraid they had been misled. It's the "any other process" that's the gotcha. I remember having that discussion many years ago with my late father and just looked the legislation up.

The legislation says:
12 Licence to manufacture spirits.
(1)No person shall manufacture spirits, whether by distillation of a fermented liquor or by any other process, unless he holds an excise licence for that purpose under this section"

 

[MickDundee]

If a member said that "freeze distilling" isn't illegal, I'm afraid they had been misled. It's the "any other process" that's the gotcha. I remember having that discussion many years ago with my late father and just looked the legislation up.

The legislation says:
12 Licence to manufacture spirits.
(1)No person shall manufacture spirits, whether by distillation of a fermented liquor or by any other process, unless he holds an excise licence for that purpose under this section"

Things like Eisenbock or the American Homebrewer’s favourite Apple Jack are not spirits though and the legislation only refers to spirits.

There was somebody on here who contacted Brewdog about it when they released DIY Dog and someone from the BD legal team confirmed that freeze distilling to make beer is legal.

Edit - it wasn’t someone on here, it was a link on here to a post on the JBK forums. And it was t their legal team it was the head honcho himself AG56 - Freeze Concentrated Eisbock

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Thanks for clearing that one up Mick thumb

 

[gb0wers]

Fair point @MickDundee , context is everything ;-)

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

The issue is not whether you are procucing spirits or not. It is illegal to produce alcohol over a certain ABV without a licence. I think that ABV IS 21% in the UK.

There's probably a formula/online calculator that will tell you how much water freeze distilling will remove, but if you got it wrong and were caught and what you're freeze distilling is over that threshold, 'I only wanted 20%' won't wash.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

A couple of answers i have found -



It's not illegal, unless it works.

Freeze distilling isn't actually distillation. It's concentration. It doesn't just concentrate the alcohol. It concentrates the flavour and the impurities too.

If you produced something worth drinking, there's a chance the authorities would call it a spirit. That would make its production without a license illegal.

Honestly though, nobody cares. Just don't sell it. Or drink it.

------------------------------------------------

I can’t answer the legal part of the question. I’m in the US and here the answer is slightly different in each state but generally not legal.

Concentrating beer is a bad idea for more reasons than the possibility of concentrating any methanol that was in the fermented starting point. Beer is made with hops and when it is concentrated the flavor becomes extremely nasty. This is why the mash that is distilled into whiskey is fermented without hops.

A long time ago in a galaxy far away I got to taste ale jack. It was horrible. I mentioned long ago, right? So long ago the glaciers had not yet retreated so it was jacked with glacial ice.