The Truth.

[An Ankoù]

I totally disagree with that statement we don't "gather" these people they choose to come here to work.

We send teams of "recruiters" out to tempt them here with promises of wages and lifestyle they wouldn't be accustomed to in the countries that had trained them. It's thoroughly immoral in my opinion.

 

[moto748]

Hang on, just by using the phrase "open door policy", we slant the debate massively. What a loaded term that is! Is it appropriate to describe the situation when we were in the EU as an 'open door policy'?I would argue not.

The idea of "just bring foreigners in when we need them" might have seemed reasonable to a lot of people back then. But look at the present day, and the shortages caused by the lack of lorry-drivers (amongst other factors). We have to recognise that the real world is more complicated than that, and the idea that there is a massive queue of Europeans patiently queuing in Calais, waiting to be given the opportunity to ply their trades in the UK, whilst us Brits look them over and say, I'l take, you, you, and you... well, the real world doesn't work like that, does it?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

We send teams of "recruiters" out to tempt them here with promises of wages and lifestyle they wouldn't be accustomed to in the countries that had trained them. It's thoroughly immoral in my opinion.

I guess they don't know its cold and rains here 80% of the year and is full of racists, when they find they have been lied to (as you suggest) they are free to leave have you any figures to show how many do?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I'l take, you, you, and you... well, the real world doesn't work like that, does it?

It seems to have worked OK in Australia (to name just one)

 

[DavidDetroit]

The US has labor shortages. They were predicted and were evident well before COVID came along.
We need immigrants but 40% or so of the US doesn't want them.
The great majority of immigrants want to work and want to make a better place out of where they live. Conversation on the subject does get slanted, negatively, all the time and that may either be intentional or unintentional.
Most people are good. Most people want to work.

 

[An Ankoù]

Most people are good. Most people want to work.

... and most immigrants are fit and young and are more than happy to contribute to the pensions of an ageing population! Merkel had the right idea.

I guess they don't know its cold and rains here 80% of the year and is full of racists, when they find they have been lied to (as you suggest) they are free to leave have you any figures to show how many do?

Lied to? Why should they be lied to?
I suspect, and this is speculation as I'm not going to research it, that they start with an initial contract, which includes their flight and initial resettlement in return for a few years' service. But by all means, check it out.

 

[Nidger]

Let's face it they were between a rock and a hard place.

And now have another idiot in power.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I suspect, and this is speculation as I'm not going to research it, that they start with an initial contract, which includes their flight and initial resettlement in return for a few years' service. But by all means, check it out.

As this is pure speculation it's pointless discussing it further they are free to leave and I haven't read any reports saying them doing this is a pattern.

 

[Nidger]

“Do you honestly believe the majority of Brexit voters voted to leave because they are racist?”


No, because they swallowed the lies about the impact of removing ourselves from Europe. My Tory Brexit voting bro-in-law regrets his choice but that’s hindsight for you.

Lot's of lies from both sides of the argument but then that's politicians for you

 

[BradleyW]

I didn't vote as i tired of the lies coming out of both camps fairly early on, i did agree that limiting immigration to those that have the skills we need rather than an open door policy would benefit the country, does that make me a racist?

There would of coursed be exceptions for asylum seekers etc.

The EU's freedom of movement policy is actually stricter than what the UK had. The UK govt chose to water it down. All this guff about "uncontrolled immigration" was entirely of the UK's own making.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

All this guff about "uncontrolled immigration" was entirely of the UK's own making.

Guff or not the people decided having no limits was not the best way to handle it and voted to change it.

 

[An Ankoù]

As this is pure speculation it's pointless discussing it further they are free to leave and I haven't read any reports saying them doing this is a pattern.

On the contrary. Speculation is always worthy of discussion. It's by chipping away at these ideas, looking for evidence, identifying falsehood, that we arrive at reliable knowledge. But that's wasn't my point, which was that seeking skills overseas when we fail to provide sufficient training places here, is immoral. The medical profession was an example. A quick googling (which may need to be checked) indicated that we have about 8500 new places in UK universities every year, but NHS England is about 50000 doctors short. This year, applications for medical places have increased by about 20%, but this has only served to make competition keener!
As "foreign" doctors leaving, I see that there are various kinds of visa, which they have to apply for according to the quality of their qualifications and that at least one of these requires a sponsor. I think a sponsor is going to want some kind of commitment.

 

[DavidDetroit]

and most immigrants are fit and young and are more than happy to contribute to the pensions of an ageing population! Merkel had the right idea.

That has been our experience regarding immigrants.
Can't say I know a ton about the chancellor but I've seen her speak and she seems sharp. I would be comfortable with her being the US president (all things considered).

 

[Chippy_Tea]

As "foreign" doctors leaving, I see that there are various kinds of visa, which they have to apply for according to the quality of their qualifications and that at least one of these requires a sponsor. I think a sponsor is going to want some kind of commitment.

More speculation i think i will leave it there.

 

[An Ankoù]

More speculation i think i will leave it there.

But yoiu're not sure. Speculation again.

Yeah let's leave it and get back to beer recipes and good solid stuff. You know where you are with a beer recipe, or a stuck mash, or a Leaky Cauldron.

 

[Cheyne_brewer]

Well the question wasn't aimed at you but as you have answered - what does it matter what you brother in law thinks?

He’s an example of the voters who believed the pro-Brexit hype. Now the reality of the situation is very different to the promise. The economic umbilical cord has been snipped he realises it’s a cold & scary world out there. Unfortunately my every prediction of the economic fallout has come to be, not helped by the pandemic. C’est la vie, his side won and we have to live with the results - crops rotting in the fields, care homes under staffed, delivery driver shortages…

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

What I really don't like is the way we "harvest" medical practitioners from other countries who've invested in their training while severely limiting training places in our own.

And often countries that can ill-afford to lose them.

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

Do you honestly believe the majority of Brexit voters voted to leave because they are racist?

I know a few people who voted to leave the EU and they're definitely not racist. But all racists would have voted to leave. Then of course you have the casuals who read The Daily Mail and the Daily Express. They definitely voted.

 

[Cwrw666]

So how did a Trump social media thread get turned round into yet another whinging Brexit thread?

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

So how did a Trump social media thread get turned round into yet another whinging Brexit thread?

I think you meant "So how did a Trump social media thread get turned round into yet another still waiting for a single benefit of leaving the EU to become apparent thread?"