Andrew Booth
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Magnesium Sulpate or mineral rich waters played a big part in the sharp tasting beers of yesteryear
The Quest for the Perfect Bitter
- Thread starter An Ankoù
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OK, this may be a little heavy on the hops to be truly described as a bitter (but not enough to be described as an IPA). Very happy with the result. I'll be doing this one again, or at least something very similar.
2kg Maris, 1kg Vienna, 375g aromatic malt, 125g CaraMunich, 50g (porridge) oats
90 mins 67C
4g Admiral FWH (45 min boil), 35g Bramling X 10 min, 35g First Gold 10 min, 15g Bramling X 0 min, 15g First Gold 0 Min
MJ M15 Yeast 18 days @ 18C
31 IBU 8 srm
Netted me 37 bottles @ 3.4%
2kg Maris, 1kg Vienna, 375g aromatic malt, 125g CaraMunich, 50g (porridge) oats
90 mins 67C
4g Admiral FWH (45 min boil), 35g Bramling X 10 min, 35g First Gold 10 min, 15g Bramling X 0 min, 15g First Gold 0 Min
MJ M15 Yeast 18 days @ 18C
31 IBU 8 srm
Netted me 37 bottles @ 3.4%
An Ankoù
Landlord.
That looks very interesting and I reckon it is an IPA with all those late additions, but we're beginning to confuse proper IPA with American IPA hopping levels. What was your batch volume and OG? I look the look of the grain bill, but wonder what the oats add.
Galena
Landlord.
Head I would assume?
An Ankoù
Landlord.
I've always found that the oily slick that oats produce diminishes the head.
Galena
Landlord.
I have only ever used oats in Oatmeal Stout, I assume it gives a fuller body and a smoothness to the beer, not sure how well it would work in a bitter but interesting to find out.
An Ankoù
Landlord.
No disrespect meant to RichK, he's made the beer and finds it gorgeous, but I'd be loath to put oats in a bitter. I know that during War Times, brewers were forced to used oats, but they don't give the sort of mouthfeel I'd look forward to in a bitter. BUT, I could be very wrong. Only one way to settle this: RIchK is going to have to send us both a bottle!!! 
..and me
Oats in a bitter does give a decent rounded mouthfeel but I've found it produces a quite creamy head that has some large bubbles and some small so looks good for a while before collapsing. So tastes good!
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Worth noting that Church End Goat's Milk, the Champion Beer of Britain 2017, is a sub-4% golden bitter with oats in it.
I can always tell when it's not been cellared long enough, it starts off very porridge-y to my taste, but that flavour mellows out with cellar time.
RoomWithABrew
Landlord.
Really enjoying this Five points bitter clone.
Five Points Best – Best Bitter | The Malt Miller
Based on details from the brewery and recipe on the malt miller site and the Craft beer channel episodes about brewing it.
I aimed for 30.5 litres in fermenter and used
4.9 kg Maris otter
0.223 kg Bairds amber malt
0.223 kg Med crystal
0.223 Wheat malt
Yeast nutrient, carrageenan and the hops .
Fuggles all the way.
I went with 50 g for 60
50 g for 15
100g at flameout
WLP 013 recommended
reply from the Five points brewery re the water.
Regarding the water profile for Best, I have this from the head brewer: "Hi mate, if you could pass to on aim for ~190 ppm calcium, 200 ppm chloride and 330 ppm sulphate."
Given the discussion above about hops and tending towards IPA seems even more hops here but definitely a bitter.
Really great drinking served from beer engine with a sparkler ( their recommendation ).
Have been stocking up on Fuggles for the next batch.
No finings used.
Five Points Best – Best Bitter | The Malt Miller
Based on details from the brewery and recipe on the malt miller site and the Craft beer channel episodes about brewing it.
I aimed for 30.5 litres in fermenter and used
4.9 kg Maris otter
0.223 kg Bairds amber malt
0.223 kg Med crystal
0.223 Wheat malt
Yeast nutrient, carrageenan and the hops .
Fuggles all the way.
I went with 50 g for 60
50 g for 15
100g at flameout
WLP 013 recommended
reply from the Five points brewery re the water.
Regarding the water profile for Best, I have this from the head brewer: "Hi mate, if you could pass to on aim for ~190 ppm calcium, 200 ppm chloride and 330 ppm sulphate."
Given the discussion above about hops and tending towards IPA seems even more hops here but definitely a bitter.
Really great drinking served from beer engine with a sparkler ( their recommendation ).
Have been stocking up on Fuggles for the next batch.
No finings used.
OK, a couple of answers to questions.
OG was 1037 & fg 1011. Normally, I'd include a bit of flaked barley for head retention but didn't have any, so substituted with oats. The quantity is pretty small anyway. Batch volume was about 18.5L to fermenter. Sorry but I don't have any in a suitable bottle to send anybody
I'd concur that it may possibly be described as an IPA. I'd normally think an IPA would use more hops probably including a dry hop & have a higher ABV. I was most definitely aiming for "ordinary bitter" here especially in abv terms. To move it to a style nearer what might be definitively described as bitter then perhaps I'd use flaked not oats, leave out the Admiral to move some of the Bramling/First Gold to fwh & cut down the later additions quite a bit. I try to do brews with no leftovers so hops tend to be in multiples of 50g (or at least 25). Hence the hopping rate here. Grain adjuncts will be split over a couple of brews max. I also find hop flavour seems to dull a little over time. Whether I try a lower hopping rate or just stick with this will depend on a whim next time round!
I think this illustrates why the quest for the perfect bitter is such an interesting one. I've come up with something I like. But is it a bitter? Maybe. Maybe not.
OG was 1037 & fg 1011. Normally, I'd include a bit of flaked barley for head retention but didn't have any, so substituted with oats. The quantity is pretty small anyway. Batch volume was about 18.5L to fermenter. Sorry but I don't have any in a suitable bottle to send anybody
I'd concur that it may possibly be described as an IPA. I'd normally think an IPA would use more hops probably including a dry hop & have a higher ABV. I was most definitely aiming for "ordinary bitter" here especially in abv terms. To move it to a style nearer what might be definitively described as bitter then perhaps I'd use flaked not oats, leave out the Admiral to move some of the Bramling/First Gold to fwh & cut down the later additions quite a bit. I try to do brews with no leftovers so hops tend to be in multiples of 50g (or at least 25). Hence the hopping rate here. Grain adjuncts will be split over a couple of brews max. I also find hop flavour seems to dull a little over time. Whether I try a lower hopping rate or just stick with this will depend on a whim next time round!
I think this illustrates why the quest for the perfect bitter is such an interesting one. I've come up with something I like. But is it a bitter? Maybe. Maybe not.
RoomWithABrew
Landlord.
@RichK
I've just brewed this beer a clone of Trve Hellion, they call it a lawnmower beer but it really was great. Really enjoyed by all those who tried it.
I'd say it was a bitter and it had oats in as well, I used wholegrain oats recipe was for
Water profile from Brewersfriend Light and Hoppy
30 litre batch
4.8 kg American ale malt lovi 2.5
1.02 kg Munich II
570g wholegrain oats instead of the Golden naked oats they recommended
340 g of med crystal
Hops
Columbus 23g for 60 minutes
Cascade and Taiheke 100g at flameout
Cascade and Taiheke 27 g at whirlpool 67 celsius for 30 minutes
No dry hop, carrageenan, clarity ferm
Recommended yeast was WLP001 but I used Opshaug Kveik open for 2/7 and then under pressure
for very clean ferment.
Mashed at 62 for 30 and 68 for thirty then mash out and chilled to pitch at 35 celsius. Was great on keg and also on the engine.
I've just brewed this beer a clone of Trve Hellion, they call it a lawnmower beer but it really was great. Really enjoyed by all those who tried it.
I'd say it was a bitter and it had oats in as well, I used wholegrain oats recipe was for
Water profile from Brewersfriend Light and Hoppy
30 litre batch
4.8 kg American ale malt lovi 2.5
1.02 kg Munich II
570g wholegrain oats instead of the Golden naked oats they recommended
340 g of med crystal
Hops
Columbus 23g for 60 minutes
Cascade and Taiheke 100g at flameout
Cascade and Taiheke 27 g at whirlpool 67 celsius for 30 minutes
No dry hop, carrageenan, clarity ferm
Recommended yeast was WLP001 but I used Opshaug Kveik open for 2/7 and then under pressure
for very clean ferment.
Mashed at 62 for 30 and 68 for thirty then mash out and chilled to pitch at 35 celsius. Was great on keg and also on the engine.
Your beer looks great with a fabulous colour.
Arguably the grain bill is angled towards an English bitter though could equally be representative of an American Amber.
When I think of a good pint of bitter, malt, yeast and hops all play a part. I'm intrigued by the flavour profile of this beer which seems on paper to focus on malt and hops while limiting flavour from the yeast.
What does the Opshaug bring to the party? I'm genuinely interested to learn if non-British yeast could be used to create a fairly typical British beer taste.
Edit: I've just spotted in your profile that you're based in NZ. So not necessarily aiming for a typical British beer. All the same, I'm intrigued about what can be done with different yeasts.
An Ankoù
Landlord.
I think we can say it's a bitter if it's broadly within the style of what we would expect for a bitter (and to hell with BJCP and their unholy ways). I started trying to find out the difference between pale ale and bitter; I'd always understood that bitter was draught and pale ale was the same beer bottled, but it seems there's more history to it than that and I just hope Peebee doesn't get his teeth into this one. So if bitter is just draft pale ale, then IPA is just a bottled version with more hops and the draft ought to be called India Pale Bitter- except I don't think the term "bitter" was used in the days of IPA.
Anyway, I might have a play around with this one and substitute the oats and some of the cara munich with naked golden oats.
Bitter is a British style of pale ale that varies in colour from gold to dark amber, and in strength typically from 3% to 5.5% alcohol by volume.[1] Wikipedia
What does Opshaug bring to the party?
I haven't tried all the kveiks, by any means, but of those I have tried, Opshaug is the only one I like. It's not overpowering and ferments quite clean at temperatures around 20C.
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You can stretch style definitions so far, but this isn't a bitter IMO. Kind of the whole point of a bitter is that it has contributions from all the components - malt, hops, water, yeast, carbonation - all in balance. In particular you need a characterful yeast, using a bland ("clean") yeast takes it more into American Amber territory.
Sadfield
Landlord.
How clean is clean though? Clean for Norwegian farmhouse strain or clean for a yeast in general?
An Ankoù
Landlord.
In my experience, it's clean for a Norwegian yeast in that it doesn't taste of orange peel etc, but it's not tasteless. I made a version of Simonds Bitter with it early last year and it fermented at around 18C. The beer had an indescribable element to it, which I recorded as "whiff of sea breeze" in a pleasant way- nothing to do with iodine or rotting fish. That gradually faded away leaving a very decent beer. Certainly there was nothing in common with the ester profiles we might expect from Windsor of London III or even West Yorkshire.
I've got some kveiks knocking around in the fridge: I might use the Voss if we ever see the sun again, and there are some other strangley named strains which I haven't tried. So far, Opshaug is the only one I would readily reach for.
