The NHS is not in crisis - just look at the figures!

[Dutto]

And if you believe that you will believe anything!

Check out the following story in the Independent ...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...figure-manipulate-a-e-hospitals-a8172996.html

The fact that the NHS management was frigging the figures was originally flagged by the National Audit Office rather than the newspaper so it appears to be as true as anything we are likely to read.

A couple of the highlighted wheezes are:

1. A patient in A&E can be "discharged" and then "re-admitted" so that the patient's waiting time would effectively be re-set to meet the target time.
2. A patient in A&E can be "moved" around the hospital on the computer when in actual fact the patient is still laid on a trolley and hasn't actually been treated or left A&E.

Another item in the news is that in talks with the golden haired head-banger over in the USA, our esteemed PM has apparently said that, as part of a USA/UK Trade Agreement, she would look favourably on US corporations bidding for NHS contracts.

Oh joy! Just what we need in this time of austerity; to be swelling the profits of American Corporations for providing the NHS with goods and services that could be provided right here in the UK.

Things have to change!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The state of the NHS is in the news almost weekly some people think throwing more money at it will sort it others don't my question is how do you effectively manage something so huge?

.

 

[sdt7618]

Good question, being a manager in a local authority, albeit on the outskirts of decision making I am shocked at the decisions that are made,implemented and then backtracked on. There are to many chiefs, and not enough good Indians. Note the word good, as without good feet on the ground no large organisation can possibly go forward and flourish, I have nearly 70 staff from apprenticeship to managers working for me, all of them pull their weight, simply because they know people depend on the to do a good job, on time.

The state of the NHS is in the news almost weekly some people think throwing more money at it will sort it others don't my question is how do you effectively manage something so huge?

.

 

[LarryF]

Isn't all of this just another step on breaking the NHS through cuts and bad management to finally force all healthcare into the hands of private health insurance companies, as they have in the states. Then the government get to charge us the same tax and National Insurance for a free health service that is so bad everyone's afraid to use it and we all pay through the nose for private health care that absolutely great until you get ill. Then the insurance company tries to wriggle out of paying for anything like every other insurance company I've ever had the misfortune to deal with. The health, social care and education in this country that was paid for through our taxes and National Insurance is what made Britain great and it's just being eroded away by big business who just want to take every single penny we earn off of us and drag us back to a Dickensian England where it was the work house or die on the streets.

 

[simon12]

Sounds like for everyone who does a useful job you have another person collecting data another deciding what the data should say and another working out how to fudge the data to say what they want.

 

[BREWERS DROOP]

I have had my monies worth out of the NHS over the last 5 years with operations, ill health etc, and had no problems with the care received. The problem is with the NHS is that its being raped by drug companies with extortionate costs to the public purse. Secondly the staff are underpaid and not valued enough, and moral is very low. I had a good chat whilst recovering some weeks ago with a senior nurse after my operation, and she was so deflated by what's happening to her role after 25 years, and said we have too many targets, too much paperwork, and not enough staff, but plenty managers telling her how to do her job.

 

[Spapro]

We've always had superb care from the Nhs, the frontline staff do not get enough credit, but it has never had and will never have enough money.

Social care or lack of it has a major impact and knock on back to Nhs and there needs to be a debate about what treatments the nhs should be offering.

 

[BREWERS DROOP]

Notice posters in our local hospital last week Keep your hands off OUR NHS Richard Branson

 

[Dutto]

The state of the NHS is in the news almost weekly some people think throwing more money at it will sort it others don't my question is how do you effectively manage something so huge?

.

A superb question and I have other ones. i.e.. "WHY is the NHS such a monolithic organisation and who decided to shutdown local facilities in favour of the massive organisations that we have today?"

As a lad, the NHS had dozens of small Cottage Hospitals that provided local every day services as required. If you needed something special then centres of excellence were provided at major hospitals in the Cities and even more specialised units were to be found dotted around the country.

If any Forum members ever go to visit the Queen's Medical Centre or the University Hospital in Nottingham you will visit what is actually a city within a city!

Patients are referred there for very minor surgery from places like Skegness; where they have shut down the operating theatres and are now talking of closing it all together!

I wish I was nineteen again! Back then I knew all the answers; and now I don't even know all the questions!

Things have to change.

 

[Thumper]

The state of the NHS is in the news almost weekly some people think throwing more money at it will sort it others don't my question is how do you effectively manage something so huge?

.

In the past the NHS was far less centralised than it is now, and seemed to work fine. While it's clear that austerity and a growing (and more significantly, ageing) population have had an effect on waiting times and bedspaces, personally I suspect that the "problem" is far more one of public perception than any significant deterioration in the quality of service.

 

[Dexter101]

There is just so much waste in the NHS at every level. Its a big like local government, in some cases, each trust has paid lots of money for software and systems that already exist elsewhere in other trusts. When a trust gets taken over, they redo all the uniforms so their new logo is correct.

The other thing is the continual progression of staff into managerial positions. Good staff get promoted into managers where they may not be any good. its doubly bad as you lose a good nurse and gain a bad manager....

The other area that I personally would like to see the NHS save money is compensation claims. Not only does this cost a huge amount of money but I also know that this is something that is really putting off staff staying in the medical profession. The number of cases of staff being reported for trivial things that affects their career is quite high. I do my job (not NHS or medical related) to the best of my ability every day... however I do make mistakes. Luckily that isn't a role that can affect peoples lives however NHS staff are only human. They also work excessive hours which in my mind wouldn't be conducive to a good, safe working environment. If truck drivers can't drive for more than 4 hours, how come NHS staff can work for 12 hour shifts, often longer.

Its probably a bit of a difficult subject but in my mind, if staff have done their best then I don't see how people should be entitled to large sums of money. Its different in cases such as the recent surgeon who lasered his name onto peoples transplant organs but if staff have genuinely done their job as well as they humanly could, then it is kind of tough luck. The other option would be you didn't get treatment....

 

[Saisonator]

There is just so much waste in the NHS at every level. Its a big like local government, in some cases, each trust has paid lots of money for software and systems that already exist elsewhere in other trusts. When a trust gets taken over, they redo all the uniforms so their new logo is correct.

The other thing is the continual progression of staff into managerial positions. Good staff get promoted into managers where they may not be any good. its doubly bad as you lose a good nurse and gain a bad manager....

The other area that I personally would like to see the NHS save money is compensation claims. Not only does this cost a huge amount of money but I also know that this is something that is really putting off staff staying in the medical profession. The number of cases of staff being reported for trivial things that affects their career is quite high. I do my job (not NHS or medical related) to the best of my ability every day... however I do make mistakes. Luckily that isn't a role that can affect peoples lives however NHS staff are only human. They also work excessive hours which in my mind wouldn't be conducive to a good, safe working environment. If truck drivers can't drive for more than 4 hours, how come NHS staff can work for 12 hour shifts, often longer.

Its probably a bit of a difficult subject but in my mind, if staff have done their best then I don't see how people should be entitled to large sums of money. Its different in cases such as the recent surgeon who lasered his name onto peoples transplant organs but if staff have genuinely done their job as well as they humanly could, then it is kind of tough luck. The other option would be you didn't get treatment....

Maybe people who want to use the NHS should sign a disclaimer so they can't take ant legal action against it if things go wrong.
If they want to use a medical service that can be made legally liable, then they could choose to use a private service.

 

[Dutto]

.................

The other area that I personally would like to see the NHS save money is compensation claims.

........

On the other hand there's our grandson Robbie who has cerebral palsy because a Doctor failed to replace a monitor probe that measured his heartbeat. By the time the nurse discovered the Doctor's error the baby's heart had stopped beating and oxygen deprivation to his brain resulted in the cerebral palsy that he will carry to his grave.

A bus driver with 70+ passengers or an aircraft pilot with 400+ passengers have much higher levels of responsibility than a Doctor so please don't forget that a Doctor is a worker just like anyone else.

Yes, we can all make mistakes but anyone who suffers a catastrophic consequence from someone's mistake has every right to compensation.:wave:

 

[Saisonator]

But the compensation comes out of the NHS budget so others suffer from the lost budget that also has to pay hefty fees for ambulance chasing lawyers.
Maybe an option would be to take out an insurance policy to cover such circumstances.

 

[Dutto]

But the compensation comes out of the NHS budget so others suffer from the lost budget that also has to pay hefty fees for ambulance chasing lawyers.
Maybe an option would be to take out an insurance policy to cover such circumstances.

When I saw my newly born grandson in an incubator, covered in bruises, shaking like a leaf and arcing his back in response to what had to be severe pain I wasn't thinking "Oh great. This will be worth a lot of compensation." I was thinking more along the lines of "Please God let the lad be okay!"

People who go to work don't expect to die or be injured because of a mistake made by their employer or their fellow workers. In case the worse happens their employer has Accident Liability Insurance.

People don't go to hospital expecting to be more injured when they come out than when they went in. If the NHS doesn't have Liability Insurance then that is mis-management on a massive scale.

Also, Private Insurance? Come on. Do you really want to swell the coffers of a rapacious Insurance Industry that already fights tooth and nail to NOT pay out compensation?

 

[Saisonator]

This is the kind of thing that concerns me.
All money that is desperately needed for patient care.
https://www.theguardian.com/society...larm-after-120000-lawyer-bill-from-5000-claim

 

[terrym]

If the NHS doesn't have Liability Insurance then that is mis-management on a massive scale.

The NHS is likely to be self insuring like other government agencies. No doubt there is a insurance claim budget allowance in the annual NHS funding of £125bn and rising.

 

[Dutto]

BTW, Robbie wasn't just let down by the Medical Profession.

The "ambulance chasing lawyer" was actually a QC who presented Robbie's case to a Judge. The compensation had already been agreed in the event that the Judge found in Robbie's favour and all the QC had to do was to walk their Expert Witness through what had happened and why it should not have happened.

The Expert Witness got one little detail wrong. The Prosecution QC didn't pick him up on the matter, the Judge wasn't allowed to pick him up on the matter and the Defence QC must have rubbed his hands with glee!

The Expert Witness left the stand and the next day the two parties involve summed up the case. It was then that the Defence QC pointed out the error. I give this as an example rather than the real date; "My Lord, there is no such day as Monday, the thirty-first of January 2018, as quoted by the Prosecution's Expert Witness. I therefore move that under these circumstances the Judge CANNOT consider the Expert Witness's evidence and therefore my Client has no case to answer."

The Judge had to agree to the move and "With great sorrow." had to dismiss the case.

The Prosecution QC was distraught at his error but in the end Robbie has to live with cerebral palsy, the NHS spent loads of money on a Defence QC and admitted to the Judge during their defence that they had completely changed the procedures that had resulted in Robbie's injuries so that "it cannot happen again".

At least no-one else should finish up in the same situation as Robbie; but does anyone believe that? I don't!

 

[Dutto]

This is the kind of thing that concerns me.
All money that is desperately needed for patient care.
https://www.theguardian.com/society...larm-after-120000-lawyer-bill-from-5000-claim

The fact that the Lawyer put in a Bill for £120,000 has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that someone suffered injuries requiring £5,000 as compensation!

In my experience, it is the NHS that refuses to accept responsibility for anything that goes wrong and involve lawyers in their efforts to do so.

Perhaps the NHS should instigate a system whereby they admit their mistakes and make a "Without Prejudice" offer of compensation WITHOUT involving lawyers.

 

[Dexter101]

On the other hand there's our grandson Robbie who has cerebral palsy because a Doctor failed to replace a monitor probe that measured his heartbeat. By the time the nurse discovered the Doctor's error the baby's heart had stopped beating and oxygen deprivation to his brain resulted in the cerebral palsy that he will carry to his grave.

A bus driver with 70+ passengers or an aircraft pilot with 400+ passengers have much higher levels of responsibility than a Doctor so please don't forget that a Doctor is a worker just like anyone else.

Yes, we can all make mistakes but anyone who suffers a catastrophic consequence from someone's mistake has every right to compensation.:wave:

Completely get this Dutto and hope the lad is ok.

My view (and this may one day change if I am ever in a position where a loved one is dying or severely injured) is that life is finite and that if I was to fall ill or am injured, I trust that the NHS staff will try its best to help me but that may or may not be enough. If later on its discovered staff could have done something differently that may or may not have made a difference, I wouldn't want my family to chase for compensation.

I could die at any point and unless the NHS directly caused it, I wouldn't want blame to be on them.