The Coronavirus thread.

[Crabby_patty]

Im not planning on having anymore childen so the risks would be to me only ,as im probably classed as being at risk i would take it . Not sure how i would feel about it 25 years ago though .

 

[foxy]

I would also say as someone who WOULD vaccinate my kids I take all these stories with a massive pinch of salt.

Guardian and BBC both reported a 21 year old girl with no underlying conditions dying of covid ect, anyway my girlfreind lives near by and they all know them and it turns out she was neevr even tested went to see medical at all.. She was dead and that is what they told the papers and they ran with it.

I think you are referring to the Chloe Middleton case, the news reports covered themselves by quoting in the report "according to her family" apparently she had asthma and died of (I believe) a heart attack. It really pays not to read between the lines but to carefully read the wording used.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Birmingham 'can't drop guard' as R-rate more than doubles


Latest figures for coronavirus show Birmingham's rate of new infections has more than doubled in a week.

The city council has warned "we cannot afford to drop our guard" as the weekly rate rose from 13.8 per 100,000 people to 28.1, with 321 new cases.

In neighbouring Sandwell - which was previously identified as an area of concern by Public Health England (PHE) - rates have dropped to below 20.

The rate is still significantly lower than the worst-hit areas.

In a joint statement on Friday with six other councils in the West Midlands - Coventry, Sandwell, Solihull, Dudley, Walsall and Wolverhampton - Birmingham City Council urged people and businesses to remain alert to the risks of coronavirus.

It also said, with thousands of university students expected to return to the region next month, social distancing would be fundamental to preventing campus outbreaks.

"People right across Birmingham and the wider West Midlands still have a huge part to play if we're going to avoid a further lockdown," council leader Ian Ward said.

"We can't afford to drop our guard now."

It comes as 19 workers at a DPD parcel delivery firm in Oldbury, Sandwell, tested positive for coronavirus.

West Midlands Police has also issued a warning after reporting that officers had to shut down 125 parties in the area last weekend in a crackdown on illegal gatherings.

The local authority called for "continued vigilance to reduce the risk of a further significant spike".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-53792462

 

[dad_of_jon]

That's a much higher standard of risk-prevention than you presumably use in the rest of your life. Do you eat fishcakes? Go to the zoo? Use an umbrella? All these things have a possible side-effect of ... death, but you still do them, right? Do you use Lemsip, Calpol or Gaviscon? They all have side-effects.

Just getting a child to school involves running a gauntlet of risks from an incredibly dangerous mix of electricity and boiling water just to make a cup of tea, to braving one-tonne death machines on the road to school. Definitely possible side-effects there, but you think that on balance the risks are worth it for the benefits.

So if you take risks just for a cup of tea or to cross the road what is your logic for insisting on no possible side-effects, for something that could prevent death or long-term disability?

Hmm, the risk of boiling water for a cup of tea is known, with a new vaccine cannot be.

I am prescribed sodium diclofenac for my back spasms. A couple of years ago it was 'not available' and I was prescribed something instead that was not as effective for me and had bad side effects - moderate nausea and unsettled stomach. I asked why I couldn't have the original medication. The reply was there was an elevated risk of heart issues with it. I asked to be put back on the original medication. But it's not so easy to get as if tends not to be stocked as readily as it once was. Now 20+ years of being on the market used by millions of people. That's a lot of testing. I'll take the risk over a new BETTER? drug that hasn't had the same level of testing. So I chose the well known risk as opposed to the future unknown risk (plus it had more notable side-effects)

Also the cynical part of me wonders if some of the issues with availability of sodium diclofenac related to it being out of patent. :tinhat:

Anyways - you don't have accept the status quo or a default position. It's always a balance of risks, unfortunately people often make these decisions without being properly informed.

 

[An Ankoù]

Also the cynical part of me wonders if some of the issues with availability of sodium diclofenac related to it being out of patent.

If it's out of patent, I'll get the old chemistry set out and knock some up. It's the only thing that works on my dodgy knees!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Fair point N.B. But I think what SImon 12 is saying is that when the new vaccine comes out, it will have been through the required number of trials, but who knows what may turn up in the future. Thalidomide being an extreme example of this. Let those who want to take the risk (and it shouldn't be a great risk) go for it, and those who want to wait let the others be the guinea pigs. You pays your money and you takes your chance. I'm not sure that the first releases of a vaccine will be used with children, though, as they're apparently not the most vulnerable. The question I have to ask myself is whether I would risk having a ***.

Obviously thalidomide was awful - but things have changed a lot since then. It was launched in the 50s. you don't refuse a lift in a modern car because the Ford Anglia had drum brakes and no ABS/airbags etc. I'd argue that biology has advanced a lot more in the last 65 years than cars - thalidomide was discovered the year the structure of DNA was worked out, which is pretty much ground zero for modern biology/medicine.

Certainly the scope of clinical trials has expanded massively since then - thalidomide was marketed for morning sickness without ever being tested on pregnant women, that would never happen now. And its effects on DNA would almost certainly have been caught in the very earliest stages of lab testing, so it would not have even been tested on pregnant women.

In fact there is some argument in the industry as to whether it's now gone too far the other way, that the sheer amount of testing is no longer in the best interests of the consumer as it inhibits innovation. It's a bit different, but imagine if Microsoft had been forced to spend 30 years testing Windows 3.1 before releasing it - would there have been the same innovation in software?

Ultimately it all comes down to risk/reward - and that applies to the major pharma companies as well. In a world where someone can win $640k from MickeyD's by spilling coffee over themselves, the major pharma companies are well aware that it's bad for business to release products that kill people.

 

[obscure]

Ultimately it all comes down to risk/reward - and that applies to the major pharma companies as well. In a world where someone can win $640k from MickeyD's by spilling coffee over themselves, the major pharma companies are well aware that it's bad for business to release products that kill people.

I know it’s off topic but the whole McDonalds coffee issue is a bit of a red herring, the women acknowledged fault, however it is also true that the coffee was served at 90 degrees and caused third degree burns needing extensive medical treatment costing in excess of $20,000 (the actual amount originally requested McDonalds offered $800)

Prior to the incident McDonalds has received several hundred complaints about coffee being served at excessive temperatures, which was a matter of corporate policy. Punitive damages where awarded because McDonalds acted irresponsibly, the lawsuit was not just because coffee was hot, it was because serving coffee hot enough to cause third degree burns in flimsy cups to customers who are going to be driving with it is not a good idea.

 

[An Ankoù]

Hmm. I'm not sure your analogies really work, but one would hope there have been improvements in clinical trials. Let's for argument's sake say you're right. The problem, then, is not a clinical one, but a political one. Can we trust our lads not to rush into things too early when everything covid-related is damaging the party, when Russia is claiming a vaccine that appears not to have been properly tested, and there's a certain prestige for the leader of the country that creates and distributes an effective vaccine. Nope, I'm not convinced, but I'm not under pressure to make a decision either, I was just throwing in my two pennies-worth as we do in (or on) the Bridge.

 

[Linalmeemow]

I know it’s off topic but the whole McDonalds coffee issue is a bit of a red herring, the women acknowledged fault, however it is also true that the coffee was served at 90 degrees and caused third degree burns needing extensive medical treatment costing in excess of $20,000 (the actual amount originally requested McDonalds offered $800)

Prior to the incident McDonalds has received several hundred complaints about coffee being served at excessive temperatures, which was a matter of corporate policy. Punitive damages where awarded because McDonalds acted irresponsibly, the lawsuit was not just because coffee was hot, it was because serving coffee hot enough to cause third degree burns in flimsy cups to customers who are going to be driving with it is not a good idea.

I was hoping someone was going to point this out. Almost all the "health and safety gone mad" stories the tabloids love to trot out turn out to be bollocks if you scratch the surface just a little bit.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Residents in Oldham, and parts of Blackburn and Pendle can no longer socialise with other households under new measures introduced to stem the spread of coronavirus.

The new rules came into place at midnight after a rise in cases.

Workplaces, childcare facilities and businesses, including pubs and restaurants, will remain open.

Oldham Council said it had more enforcement capacity to take action against people breaking the rules.

Leader Sean Fielding said the council had closed one pub in the last 24 hours.

Since July, the government has been introducing extra restrictions in parts of northern England after a spike in coronavirus cases.

The extra measures announced on Friday for Oldham, and parts of Blackburn and Pendle will not prevent people from shopping, going to work or attending schools, which open from 1 September.

However, any social activities indoors and outdoors can only be done with people in their household.

Councillor Fielding welcomed the announcement the town would not face business closures.

But he warned the authority now had the power to take action when the rules are broken.

He said: "Part of our discussions with government to avert an Leicester-style economic lockdown was a pledge around increasing the capacity in our enforcement teams, so that we could take action where we had reports of businesses or premises or households not following the rules.

"So when we receive those reports we now have additional capacity around enforcement and compliance to take action, whether it's fines, whether it's closure orders or whatever."

Mr Fielding said the council has enlisted celebrities such as Pakistan cricket captain Azhar Ali, who is currently playing in a Test Match series against England, and The Inbetweeners actor James Buckley "to get the message out to communities that might listen to [them] rather than listen to me."

"We are also doing some really targeted intervention in our most affected communities, and that includes things like door-to-door testing, using community leaders to get messages over."

Earlier this week, the council shared a clip of Game Of Thrones actor James Cosmo warning residents that "lockdown is coming" unless they abide by guidelines.

Cosmo, who played Jeor Mormont, Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, told residents to "stay safe and follow the guidance".

Elsewhere, Birmingham has been added to the government's watch list, and Northampton named an "area of intervention".

BBC News.

 

[Old Geezer]

"I told em Oldham" That takes me back a few years it was an advertisement on the TV for car batteries. actually I have a daughter who lives in Oldham now with her husband and 3 sons, spoke to her about this earlier this morning.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Tightened restrictions to stop the spread of Covid-19 are to be eased in parts of north-west England, allowing more than a million people to mix in different households.

From Wednesday rules will be relaxed in Bolton, Stockport, Trafford, Burnley, Hyndburn and parts of Bradford, Calderdale and Kirklees.

Measures were imposed in those areas at the end of July amid a rise in cases.

Current restrictions in Leicester remain until a review by 11 September.

Health and Social Care Secretary Matt Hancock said: "We brought in measures to protect people in these parts of northern England.

"We're seeing the positive results of our local approach, and are able to bring in increasingly targeted measures."

Businesses which opened elsewhere in England on 15 August, including bowling alleys and indoor play areas, will also be able to reopen in the areas where rules are being relaxed.

Coronavirus cases per 100,000 population in Burnley halved during the week ending 20 August from 52 to 24.6, while cases in Bolton and Stockport fell from 25.6 to 18.9, and 23 to 15.1 respectively, and Trafford cases dropped from 27.1 to 17.8, the government said.

Full article - Restrictions eased in parts of northern England

 

[DavidDetroit]

Looks like there are whispers of the "herd immunity" approach from the WH. POTUS didn't like what Dr. Fauci and associates were saying so he got himself a new guy (not an epidemiologist). Denials all around about it but 45* mentioned "herd immunity" in an interview on his personal network.

I don't know what you folks, in the UK, think of your handling of the virus, your situations, etc., but that graph above (post 4,212) looks pretty good from where I'm sitting...in my house...alone...haven't seen my relatives since March...lost four friends/relatives.
I'm not that bummed really. I can be dramatic. I do have it pretty lucky.

 

[dad_of_jon]

I'm looking to get a quick trip to Belgium in a few weeks when they take it off the quarantine list. And before other restrictions in the UK ramp up. No issues with traveling through France to Belgium (about 25 miles) as long you don't leave your car whilst in France. I'm aware the gov't can change the list at short notice. So i'll be monitoring the situation. I've been keeping an eye when the announcements have been made and when they take effect and notice a pattern building up.

Wales is going to be testing at the airport, but lets face it there's really only one airport and it's not got the throughput of most airports in the uk

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Round-up: UK PM's coronavirus briefing

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has just finished his press conference on coronavirus.
So, what did he and his scientific advisers, Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance, say?

• Cases have risen sharply in recent weeks, especially among 17- to 21-year-olds
• The rise is not limited to a few local areas but has been seen across the country
• The PM said it was "time to act" and introduced new measures in England from Monday, including "the rule of six" to limit the number of people who can gather together
• There will be exemptions, such as for weddings and funerals, as well as in gyms and restaurants, but fines will be introduced for all those who break the rules
• Hospitality venues will be legally required to collect contact details from customers, or face fines
• Johnson also confirmed the government was working on a "moonshot" mass testing plan for tests that can give results in less than 20 minutes
• There will be a pilot on entertainment venues in Salford next month so people who test negative on the door can go and see shows
• He hopes to roll this out nationally, but we will need to wait for the results.

 

[Barley Rubble]

No need to worry. The Covid 19 virus shuts itself down during the day and is only highly contagious after 2200 hours. Well that is according to Boris Johnson!

 

[terrym]

No need to worry. The Covid 19 virus shuts itself down during the day and is only highly contagious after 2200 hours. Well that is according to Boris Johnson!

The possibility of contracting Covid 19 isn't a joke.
This virus is not completely discriminatory in spite of what many believe.
This relatively young woman has been living with the after-effects for months.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-...e_your_say&link_location=live-reporting-storyAs someone who has, in the past, suffered post viral fatigue for only a few short weeks I can assure you the impact on your life can be devastating.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

No need to worry. The Covid 19 virus shuts itself down during the day and is only highly contagious after 2200 hours. Well that is according to Boris Johnson!

They were talking to a couple of landlords on the news and they asked why they thought this rule had been drought in and they said they assumed it was because the later it gets the less people who have had a few drinks tend to obey the distancing rules, the government have two options close pubs completely and let them go bust or try to keep them going in a way customers and staff stay safe.

 

[Covrich]

The possibility of contracting Covid 19 isn't a joke.
This virus is not completely discriminatory in spite of what many believe.
This relatively young woman has been living with the after-effects for months.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-...e_your_say&link_location=live-reporting-storyAs someone who has, in the past, suffered post viral fatigue for only a few short weeks I can assure you the impact on your life can be devastating.

Yeah my now ex had her whole ward shut down and bought Aussie flu back in 2018.. Normally a healthy person I had this and beat the flu in about 5 days whereas she was bed ridden for nearly 3 weeks with it.. However for about 2 to 3 weeks after it the malaise and fatigue and lerthargicness was so frustrating and hard to pin point.. It took a good few weeks to shake it off

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Furlough: Rishi Sunak reveals replacement support scheme

A new support scheme to replace furlough has been unveiled by the UK Chancellor Rishi Sunak.

It will mean thousands of people in Wales will be eligible for support - as long as they are in work for a least a third of their hours.

The government will then help top up wages, with companies asked to pay 55% of the bill.

The new emergency fund will be in place for six months, from 1 November.

The current furlough scheme comes to an end in October.

Mr Sunak said the furlough scheme would end because the support must "adapt and evolve".

He said no decision was harder but it was "fundamentally wrong" to keep people in unviable jobs.

"I can't save every job - no chancellor could," he told MPs as he unveiled details of the new Job Support Scheme.

Under the new scheme, a worker who does a minimum of 33% of their weekly hours will be guaranteed 77% of their weekly wage.

It would see the UK government paying a 22% slice of the bill - with firms paying the rest.

A new support scheme to replace furlough has been unveiled by the UK Chancellor Rishi Sunak.

It will mean thousands of people in Wales will be eligible for support - as long as they are in work for a least a third of their hours.

The government will then help top up wages, with companies asked to pay 55% of the bill.

The new emergency fund will be in place for six months, from 1 November.

The current furlough scheme comes to an end in October.

Mr Sunak said the furlough scheme would end because the support must "adapt and evolve".

He said no decision was harder but it was "fundamentally wrong" to keep people in unviable jobs.

"I can't save every job - no chancellor could," he told MPs as he unveiled details of the new Job Support Scheme.

Under the new scheme, a worker who does a minimum of 33% of their weekly hours will be guaranteed 77% of their weekly wage.

It would see the UK government paying a 22% slice of the bill - with firms paying the rest.

n addition to the furlough replacement, the chancellor announced that businesses borrowing money through the government's loan scheme would also be given more time to repay the money.

A VAT cut for hospitality and tourism companies will also be extended until March. The cut from 20% to 5% VAT - which came into force on 15 July - had been due to expire on 12 January next year.

Responding to the announcement, the business body CBI Wales welcomed the pledges.

"These bold steps from the Treasury will save hundreds of thousands of viable jobs this winter," said CBI Wales director Ian Price.

"The chancellor has listened to evidence from business and unions, acting decisively.

"It is this spirit of agility and collaboration that will help make 2021 a year of growth and renewal."

Full (and very long) article - Chancellor reveals furlough replacement scheme