The best boiler

[matth]

Hello, Having recently moved in with my in-laws whilst i look for a new house (with an outhouse for a brewery) i have done a few brews with my little plastic 15 litre setup - whilst my father in law looked on in bemusement. He owns a small engineering and fabrication company so he has said to me draw up what you want and ill build it. so not based on a stock pot, it'll be completely from scratch and ultimately be part of a nice shiny all-grain system when i have somewhere to house it (and electric - i don't want gas burners etc.

so basically the questions are, what would be the best shape and features on a boiler?

I was thinking of having the outlet tap on the bottom for ease of drainage, but would the bottom be better being slightly conical so that all the liquid drains out?

In terms of a hop filter i know i could put one on the bottom below the element, but how easy are these to clean/empty all the spent hops - i was thinking i could have a stainless steel mesh bucket that sits inside the boiler, shaped so that does not interfere with the heating element, that way once the boiler is drained i could just take it to the bin and empty it all at once then hose it down. would that work as i haven't seen one but i guess its like a metal version of the bags i have seen people stick in their boilers.

what sort of size should it be - i know this is subjective, and most people are going to say as big as possible, but i need to think in terms of it will need to eventually be housed somewhere that is of an unknown size and tie in with the rest of the yet unmade equipment - which will probably be a gravity fed system. i have a 15 litre system becaus i used to live in a little cottage and it needed to be stored easily, but i wish it was bigger. I will be bottling most, if not all of my brews which means cleaning and filling hundreds of bottles would be a pain in the ****, also if it is too bit i might be inclined to play it safe recipe wise as i won't want hundreds of pints of strange experimental brews that go wrong. I was thinking somewhere around 50 litres (boiling capacity of 40 litres)

In terms of elements, my current boiler is a tesco value element type affair, but should i go for an imersion heater type element or is there better ones out there.

Thanks any and all help is much appreciated, i havent shared many pics - largely because most of my brewing is a bit dull and very messy - but i will endeavor to post up pics of this build.

 

[Fil]

not tellin you anything till dad inlaw agrees to build me one too

 

[LeithR]

From what I've seen since joining the forum a couple of years ago I think Vossy1 has the best designed set up seen so far.

Allowing for the fact that he's not a professional brewer but an accomplished amateur.

Stainless inverted conical with taps at the bottom.

 

[matth]

Cheers i'll search through vossys posts. Fil, i've long thought that there must be some mileage for him in this!

 

[matth]

Having spent a while searching through, is there a reason why not many (or none that i have seen do far) use a conical type vessel with the tap underneath as a boiler? wouldn't the hops sitting on top of the mesh inner act as a filter bed for the cold break and any other bits of ****? i think i would let anything else gather in the bottom of the FV in primary.

at this stage i am not thinking herms or anything just a gravity fed system - i may upgrade at a later date.

 

[evanvine]

Allowing for the fact that he's not a professional brewer but an accomplished amateur.

:wha: :whistle:

Kidding apart, he's a grand bloke!

 

[matth]

I think I have settled on a fairly conical bottom with a valve attached tere,I was thinking maybe a square boiler, then I may make the hot and mash tun square to - to save space. I know there is the Yorkshire square fermenter, but I prob just use plastic buckets - is there any prob with a square kettle?

 

[djcorbetto]

What equipment does he have? Could he build a plate chilled that can be taken apart?

 

[matth]

more than likely, i have never really looked at the design of them - but that could be an option (i'm going to search the threads now), don't they involve chemicals or hav i got confused?

 

[Fil]

What volumes do you want to brew, currently your brewing 15l? is that a good quantity for a test brew for you, I assume with the new kit you also wnt the ability to brew more when you have a proven favorite recipe to replicate.

a common feature of the big pot brewkits (98l) is when electrically heated the position of the elements means the minimum quantity needed to fill over the element level can be more than a small test batch requires.

With the custom build offer perhaps flexibility in brewlength should govern the shape and design of the boiler? providing a shape which will allow you to comfortably boil the minimum quantity you want for a test brew as well as the full volume brews as you want em, otherwise you may still need to hang onto the kit your replacing...

 

[matth]

Great cheer fil, this is kind of what om thinking. I don't want to get it made then find in a years time i want a bigger one, but then again i dont want it too small. I suppose tall and thin would get around the level of element - whenever i see commercial kettles they are usually quite wide is there some sort of rolling boil reason for this?

My 15 litre kettle usually only brews 12 litres - maybe 14 if i top it up at the end, but basically its too small - i may give it to a friend, but it is handy for off the wall experimentation. I suppose its flexibility that i am getting at.

Does anyone else have a large kettle that they do small batches in, as i'm pretty sure i'd just try and fill it all the time if i had the volume.

Does a square kettle sound like a nightmare to clean? i have never really had a problem with burnt wort - but then again i used extract, for a 12 litre brew length i could never be bothered with all grain - even though i did build a mash tun (might give it ago this weekend thinking about it)

I want to build the rest of my brewery around my kettle so want to get that right then think of mash tun and hlt.

 

[Vossy1]

Great thought provoking topic Matt A few thoughts I've had in the past...

if I had a set brew length that I wouldn't normally go under I could put the elements as high up the wall of the boiler as possible and then use whirl pooling to get a clear run off. I've tried wp'ing with bottom fitted elements and the results aren't great
Square boilers, I've seen those supplied by someone quite well known in the micro building business...saw them on a Gordon Ramsay programme too I think :hmm:
Height to width of boiler...there is a reason for more height than width, can't remember what anymore (great help ) but think it's something to do with agitation of the hops v extraction in the boil and also agitation and precipitation of protein...I'm sure someone knows what I mean and can put it better.

Does anyone else have a large kettle that they do small batches in, as i'm pretty sure i'd just try and fill it all the time if i had the volume.

I used to do smallish brews in my 100ltr boiler, probably not ideal, but the beer tasted fine to me, I didn't have 2 boilers then, I do now :P

 

[PD]

I remember upgrading from a 30 Lt. boiler and coolbox mash tun. to my present 3 vessel 100 litre stainless pots. Vossey quite rightly asked me why 100 litres when my brew lengths were normally of 23/25 liter lengths.
My response at the time was....er why not ?
I wanted one upgrade only and to be able to do whatever I fancied... he hee not scientific or very practical reasons.

However I got them as monies were available to me at the time, the difference in price between 50 litres and 100 was minimal in the scheme of things.....

I'm very glad I did. I've brewed up to 50 litres without problem, and seeing the head space available with all that wort boiling away gives me peace of mind and makes me feel comfortable.

My normal brew lengths of 23 liters does look a little lost in the pot, but the only problem I had was my old chiller not reaching down deep enough into the wort to be effective.
That was sorted and I have no problems now.
Boil off on my first few brews was high but with time and experience I've got it down to 12% ish which I'm happy with.

I may invested next year in a 50 liter boiler, I'm undecided...I can see the sense of it, but when I see my 100 litre boiler, 100 liter hlt and 80 liter thermopot lined up on the bench for a brew day...I think.........naaaah this is good....

 

[matth]

Brilliant, this is what i was looking for - it is the starting point of a 3 vessel set up

I wanted one upgrade only and to be able to do whatever I fancied... he hee not scientific or very practical reasons.

Exactly my requirement - i'm hoping it will be the only one i need for at least 10 years (all being well)

Square boilers, I've seen those supplied by someone quite well known in the micro building business...saw them on a Gordon Ramsay programme too I think :hmm:

I suppose my only reason for this was efficiency of space and ease of sticking an element in on a straight side - but if round is easier to clean then maybe i'll go down that route.

Height to width of boiler...there is a reason for more height than width, can't remember what anymore (great help ) but think it's something to do with agitation of the hops v extraction in the boil and also agitation and precipitation of protein...I'm sure someone knows what I mean and can put it better

TBH even if someone told me the scientific reason i probably wouldn't understand it - just thought id ask if there was a reason - i'll try and have a look at agitation v extraction.

I just thought if its taller and thinner then ill have more flexibility over brew length

Also going to search whirlpooling as its something i know nowt about.

Cheers guys - brilliant answers :thumb:

 

[Vossy1]

TBH even if someone told me the scientific reason i probably wouldn't understand it - just thought id ask if there was a reason - i'll try and have a look at agitation v extraction.

I do wonder how much 'best practice' really applies to us home brewers, after all we can 'dial' our systems in to suit, it's not really about savings :hmm:

 

[StubbsPKS]

I've always been told you get less evaporation if your kettle is taller than it is wide because there is less surface area. Not sure how true it is, but that's how most things in home brewing go :lol:

 

[matth]

Cheers guys, the evaporation thing sounds about right, so that's another argument for taller and thinner.

Regarding saving, I think most non brewers see home brewers as tight ar*es who want to Brew as cheaply as possible. Whilst maybe that's the case for a few I think the vast majority are beer enthusiasts who take it to the next level. For me I want to brew beer better than I can buy and stuff that suits me without trekking to some "trendy" beer boutique just to get something a bit different. I think that's another topic though!

Cheers guys :thumb:

 

[mrwilkes]

what about modifying one of these!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksi ... &_from=R40

 

[matth]

Very nice, but a bit pricey. was thinking of having a shallower conical bit. cheers for the link though!

 

[mrwilkes]

No worries, there is someone importing them from china somewhere on ebay for around £250. Im looking around for ideas too.