Texas shooting 19 dead.

[scrap iron]

"The entire city [of Portland, Oregon] is ablaze all the time."
--45*, August 2020
Yes, he actually said that. I think it's safe to say, however, that we can trust the former President in all things (it's not like he had over 30K lies or misleading statements during his four-year term).
Anyway, if one wants to blame upticks in violence (still lower than national average for such a city) on "anarchists" which also means antifa, I suppose, instead of run-of-the-mill criminals, that's an interesting take.

I didn't vote for Trump in either election and think he is a blowhard. But let's inject some facts here.
https://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Portland-Oregon.htmlI believe MrRook said he lived there 20 yrs and his wife grew up there. I would think he should know what's going on there.
I would like to give you an opportunity to tell about your experience living in or visiting Portland. Like I said earlier I'm an Independent, and was a Blue Dog Democrat in the past before the move left of the party. Also just because someone identifies as Conservative doesn't make them a Fascist just like identifying as a Democrat doesn't make them a Communist. I believe people need to meet in the middle and find common ground in todays political climate.

 

[Big_Eight]

Still can’t get my head around this.
But a colleague of mine who just returned from hols in the states told me that the gunman (well, boy) had body armour and armour-piercing bullets for which the cops had no plan to counter once he was holed up - hence they waited for the SWAT team.
I don’t know how true it is though, but I guess we’ll find out.

I've also heard they were holding up the swat team from going in and they finally just went in.

I don't think the armour is a valid excuse in this situation especially when there are so many of them sucking their thumbs outside.

Over here in Colorado we've had to deal with this a lot. Hell we had a shooting at a stem high school not to long ago. Cops came busting in but the kids actually stopped it and one paid for it with his life. He saved so many and is a hero.

We also had a grocery store shooting in Boulder not far from me where cops just went in and we had a cop pay for it with his life. The guy had on body armor but without their quick response it would've been much worse.

Protecting the public is part of their job and if you can't follow active shooter protocols that you've had training for and even recently in the Uvalde case you shouldn't be a cop and go in to another field.

That's also sending a signal in Texas that if you wear body armor we are going to wait outside with piss running down our legs and wait.

This isn't pointed at you I'm just extremely disappointed with law enforcement with this one.

I would like to point out the so called right is pushing arming teachers. That's not their job and we should be able to have a safe place for kids to learn without this ********. So what now your going to put that on the teachers while still paying them crumbs on the dollar for what they do? I see a lot of educators quiting if this happens. I know a lot of really good would be teachers that won't teach and go in to other industries because the pay is so unacceptable.

 

[DavidDetroit]

I believe people need to meet in the middle and find common ground in todays political climate.

Our personal experience is anecdotal, as is anyone else's. Unbiased statistics is the path. My original point is that it's not antifa alone and a comment that Portland is a nice place.
But with any stat, it can be abused. One can't compare an apple with an orange, at the very least. If I compare Detroit with Birmingham, Mi., what would be the point? Of course the stats would appear unfavorable for Detroit, just like any big city.
I also couldn't track down the intent of the person from your source. Seemed personally owned, don't know the motivation.

 

[DavidDetroit]

Blue Dog Democrat in the past before the move left of the party.

The House and Senate Dem move left is of a much smaller degree than the Rep move right, according to Pew Research. So you were Dem but identified as conservative or centrist? I had to look up "Blue Dog."
Anyway, when someone repeats "anarchists" to make a point, as was done above, it draws my attention because there's an ulterior motive. It's a very common RW manipulation. Same as putting "BLM" and "antifa" in the same sentence yet any address of the worst terrorist threat and biggest group of anarchists we have (white nationalists/supremacists) is dismissed or avoided.
Maybe none of the people posting here are like that. I've been wrong before.
As far as party, the left is less offensive on paper. I'm not much for liberal or conservative; I'd prefer that reason and logic be used to run the US but that is not the case.
With that illogical governing comes an inability to implement effective laws, close loopholes to stop mass shootings.

 

[moto748]

The worst thing abiut school shootings is, you know there'll soon be another one round the corner. And nothing will change.

Just like the one before this. And the one before that.

 

[Eskimo John]

I suppose I am an anti fascist as fasciam equals hate and oppression in my opinion.
However I would never join an organisation such as those mentioned here. Why? In my experience organisations from benign clubs to groups of activists tend to be dominated by a few individuals. They are not generally democratically elected and are usually zealous about their subject and therefore, for want of a better word, "extremists" in their field.
Where politics are involved this can so easily distort the aims of an organisation and so we see political parties and non elected organisations drifting to extremes and sometimes into terrorism.
Thus Putin has undermined Russian fledgling democracy, perhaps Trump has had a go at doing the same in the USA, and Johnson has started to undermine the foundations of British democracy with his attempts to break the rules with no accountability. With other perhaps well-meaning organisations we see extremists glueing themselves to roads to make their point and impeding ambulances with the potential to cost lives.
Actually that is what's so good about this forum. Great source of info about beer and brewing and also a great place to rant with no harm done!

 

[ChrisR73]

I've also heard they were holding up the swat team from going in and they finally just went in.

I don't think the armour is a valid excuse in this situation especially when there are so many of them sucking their thumbs outside.

Over here in Colorado we've had to deal with this a lot. Hell we had a shooting at a stem high school not to long ago. Cops came busting in but the kids actually stopped it and one paid for it with his life. He saved so many and is a hero.

We also had a grocery store shooting in Boulder not far from me where cops just went in and we had a cop pay for it with his life. The guy had on body armor but without their quick response it would've been much worse.

Protecting the public is part of their job and if you can't follow active shooter protocols that you've had training for and even recently in the Uvalde case you shouldn't be a cop and go in to another field.

That's also sending a signal in Texas that if you wear body armor we are going to wait outside with **** running down our legs and wait.

This isn't pointed at you I'm just extremely disappointed with law enforcement with this one.

I would like to point out the so called right is pushing arming teachers. That's not their job and we should be able to have a safe place for kids to learn without this ********. So what now your going to put that on the teachers while still paying them crumbs on the dollar for what they do? I see a lot of educators quiting if this happens. I know a lot of really good would be teachers that won't teach and go in to other industries because the pay is so unacceptable.

No I agree, even if they went in and held him in one place to prevent further carnage it would have been good - or at least would have looked much better.
Arming teachers cannot be the answer - it would just make schools a shooting gallery. Because let’s not forget that someone with half a brain and that intention who is heavily armed will just pick off the threats first
Everywhere* else in the world just makes it harder to get hold of guns, thus reducing the number of shootings quite dramatically.
*Well, nearly everywhere.

 

[Dutto]

….. A fruitless conversation.

Here’s something from years ago! I don’t like to be patriotic but please listen to the words and you may see why I posted it.



Enjoy!
:hat:

 

[ChrisR73]

I suppose I am an anti fascist as fasciam equals hate and oppression in my opinion.
However I would never join an organisation such as those mentioned here.

Totally agree - but what do we do when the fascists try to take power?
Surely it then becomes our duty to form an organised opposition.
Obviously I’m speaking hypothetically because I’m not a member of antifa and we all know that the UK is run by idiots, not fascists.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Here’s something from years ago! I don’t like to be patriotic but please listen to the words and you may see why I posted it.

The problem with songs is you often cannot hear all the words -

God save the queen
The fascist regime
They made you a moron
A potential H bomb

God save the queen
She's not a human being
and There's no future
And England's dreaming

Don't be told what you want
Don't be told what you need
There's no future
No future
No future for you

God save the queen
We mean it man
We love our queen
God saves

God save the queen
'Cause tourists are money
And our figurehead
Is not what she seems

Oh God save history
God save your mad parade
Oh Lord God have mercy
All crimes are paid

Oh when there's no future
How can there be sin
We're the flowers
In the dustbin
We're the poison
In your human machine
We're the future
Your future

God save the queen
We mean it man
We love our queen
God saves

God save the queen
We mean it man
There's no future
In England's dreaming God save the queen

No future
No future
No future for you

No future
No future
No future for me

No future
No future
No future for you

 

[moto748]

John Lydon is a phoney, and a pretty unpleasant individual. Always was; then and now. Always makes me laugh to see middle-aged men looking to him as some kind of hero.

https://boingboing.net/2022/06/05/e...nk-the-sex-pistols-were-a-real-punk-band.html

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I have read some stuff about him caring for his wife who has altzeimers i don't hero worship him but there are two sides to a coin.

 

[sifty]

I'm currently reading Lonely Boy, Steve Jones' autobiography. A good read, interesting as before my time...

 

[Tanglefoot]

I suppose I am an anti fascist as fasciam equals hate and oppression in my opinion.
However I would never join an organisation such as those mentioned here.

Obviously I’m speaking hypothetically because I’m not a member of antifa

Just want to point out that antifa is not an organisation you could join even if you wanted to.
Because it doesn't exist as such, it's a term invented by the right as a catch all for a multitude of different independent groups and individuals who sometimes come together to oppose the fascists.

In fact the right wing groups ( Proud Boys etc. ) seem to be far more organised as a cohesive group as seen at White House insurrection.

 

[lancon]

Just want to point out that antifa is not an organisation you could join even if you wanted to.
Because it doesn't exist as such, it's a term invented by the right as a catch all for a multitude of different independent groups and individuals who sometimes come together to oppose the fascists.

In fact the right wing groups ( Proud Boys etc. ) seem to be far more organised as a cohesive group as seen at White House insurrection.

Its does seem that the term is used by the right as a convenient way of lumping together anyone that they disagree with. It is a convenient way to polarise discussion to us v them.
Interestingly the right has promoted 2 terms 'antifa' and 'woke', both terms meant as pejorative, but therefore implying that fascism is good, and being asleep/unaware of social problems is the way forward??

And apparently Antifa was originally a German group post WW2 to tackle any fascist tendencies still within Germany.