Suspected underpitch - recovery options

[Wantser]

Hi,

Third AG brew in, still using recipie packs to get used to the process etc.

Decided to try a liquid yeast WLP005. But 36 hours in and still no activity in the airlock. Is in a SS fermenter so can't see anything else.

The pack was reasonably young, and instructions intimated under 1.050 to pitch directly.

Issue was that my wort ended up at 1.052ish (something to discuss on another thread).

I've been reading about the need for starters with these kind of yeasts due to cell counts, but at the time, I felt I was too late.

So the ask is:

1. What are my options to resolve the under pitch before a potential spoil?

2. In this scenario, should/could I have got the wort into the FV and used some of that wort for a quick starter or even pitched 24s later if FV is sealed?

Cheers all

Wantser

 

[Linalmeemow]

Leave it alone, it's almost certainly fine. Take a gravity reading in a couple of days, if it hasn't moved by then you could consider pitching more yeast.

 

[Wantser]

The only yeast I have at home is some US-05 from another kit. Will order some more WLP005, but unlikely to get here for a few more days.
Whats the view on mixing yeast types? This sounds like a noddy question I know. Was watching something the other day about doing this sort of thing...probably mess with the flavours somewhat.

I guess this is the danger with the kits for a noob....just buy "a" yeast sachet that comes with it and use that...

Think I will start to stock up...not in a position to start culturing just yet :)

Have given the FV a gentle swirl and checked that there are no leaks around the seal and airlock.

Need to practise patience ..... My others have just cracked on after a re-hydrate, even in a similar scenario (OG1053ish with a single S-04 sachet), though it did finish a higher than "ideal". 24hr and bubbles away.

 

[BlackRegent]

How's the fermentation looking now?

I brewed an AG Old Ale recently with Wyeast 1028 London Ale. The OG was 1079 after a large corn sugar addition, so the yeast had a lot of work to do to get it down to the 1014 FG. I just pitched the smack pack straight into the FV (after a few hours activation) and nothing happened for the first 2-3 days. With hindsight, I should have made a starter.

Despite the customary anxiety, it got going and seems to have chewed through the sugars. The gravity was 1020 when fermentation seemed to stop, but I gave it a stir and increased the temp from 20C to 22C. That then go some mild fermentation going again so hopefully that will knock off the last few points. Hopefully going to bottle it up this evening.

You know this already, but I would resist the temptation to keep peeking inside, especially if fermentation hasn't got going, as you are still in the danger zone for an infection.

Good luck!

 

[Wantser]

Hi BR,

Almost 4 days and not a bubble - kept at 20C.

Im going to test SG later today to see if owt has gone on. Ive got some more WLP005 coming in, hoping it will get here soon, but its its 5 days and little movement, am I better off cutting losses than trying to recover?

I've not opened it....just tried to ignore and hope!

Gutted as it smelt ace and id got it in pretty clear even with leaf hops.

 

[trueblue]

I would always make a starter with any liquid yeast.

 

[Wantser]

Hey trueblue, will be from now on for sure. Have bought some DME in readiness.

 

[JonBrew]

Hi BR,

Almost 4 days and not a bubble - kept at 20C.

Im going to test SG later today to see if owt has gone on. Ive got some more WLP005 coming in, hoping it will get here soon, but its its 5 days and little movement, am I better off cutting losses than trying to recover?

I've not opened it....just tried to ignore and hope!

Gutted as it smelt ace and id got it in pretty clear even with leaf hops.

What date was on the pack of yeast? I think with White Labs you're guaranteed 100 billion cells but that starts to drop off as soon as it's packaged basically. By the time is ships from the US to the UK, then you get it posted from the retailer, viable cell count will have dropped a bit and that's why there's a general recommendation to build up in a starter regardless of age of the pack or OG of the beer.

Having said that, I'm pretty surprised to hear that 4/5 days post pitch there's still no signs of fermentation. If it were me I'd take a sample and check the SG. If it's not dropped and there's no krausen forming on the surface of the wort I'd be inclined to rehydrate and pitch your US-05.

 

[Wantser]

Yeast has a Best Before of 24th Oct 2020

What is the likely outcome by adding the US-05 in addition to WLP005? Thoughts?

 

[Wantser]

So, just tested SG. 1.030.

So something is happening. Not going to lift the lid, will just give it another swirl I think.

Pretty sure the airlock hasn't moved though...

Worried face turns to confused face....

 

[Nicks90]

Won't do any harm. After all if the existing yeast is dead, it will just be brewed with uso5, which is my go to general purpose yeast anyway!

 

[JonBrew]

So, just tested SG. 1.030.

So something is happening. Not going to lift the lid, will just give it another swirl I think.

Pretty sure the airlock hasn't moved though...

Worried face turns to confused face....

It's funny, when I first read your post I thought you'd find if you took a SG reading that it was fermenting but you just aren't getting Co2 through the airlock. Then I noticed you have an ss fermenter and figured that was less likely as they tend to had good seals etc. But you've clearly got fermentation taking place but no airlock movements do you must have a leak somewhere. Are all you lid clamps fastened down (not that it matters all that much)?

I say give it at another week or so then take another sample. Hopefully now that it's underway the fermentation will be otherwise normal.

 

[Wantser]

All the clamps are on and the lid is level....the only thing I noticed is its off centre slightly. But not by much. Its got the rubber seal in the lip and this must be in contact all the way round else the clamps wouldn't go on properly....but it must be leaking.....surely.

I'm gonna reseat the lid...only explanation

 

[Wantser]

Well....that was confusing!

Unclamped and reseated the lid without lift off too far. Had a peak inside and there is krasuen residue on the sides. Reseated lid taking extra care to seat centrally and opposite clamps locked.

Que lots of bubbles....for 2 mins and then nothing. What?

Stared at it for ten then tested the bung seal with some water in the lid recess to see if anything was coming up through there....nothing so soaked off with some kitchen towel.

Still no bubbles.

Stared at it for a bit more and pushed the airlock in a bit further....que bubbles.

This is a new bung (came with kit) and the airlock was screwed into it before FV fill. I can only suggest that there was a gap, but it must be soooooo tiny. You'd think that at least some gas would hit the airlock tube, but maybe this tiny hole was acting as a vacuum once the FV got to a certain pressure.

So, left it for 15mins and then came back to check. Bloody stopped again!

So, screwed the little git in further. Has now been bubbling for 30mins. Tested with some small drops of water around the base of the airlock and nothing coming up just yet. See what happens over night.

Seems so noddy, but I must be on the limit of breaking the bloody thing pushing it into the bung. Definitely not had to fanny about with it like this before.

Might get some beer yet!

 

[JonBrew]

I wouldnt worry too much about the air lock not bubbling. What sounds more suspect is you say that there was a ring of krausen residue on the inside of the fermenter. Was there a krausen on the surface of the fermenting beer? If the krausen has dropped and you're only at 1030 SG that might indicate a stuck/stalled fermentation.

 

[Wantser]

Hey JonBrew,

No, there was no krausen on the top, so I imagine it has dropped.

Looks like this brew is presenting a few challenges. Certainly a learning experience!

I think this is stalling. Ive some more WLP005 on its way, so how about this for a plan....

Raise temp to 22 and get a few swirls underway.
when WLP005 gets here, pitch that without starter into my now 1.030 wort.

I wonder whether that is a "waste" of yeast though? Should I just cut my losses and re-hydrate the US-05 for this one? Means I save the WLP005 for another brew, this time with a starter...

Im leaning to the US-05 now....feel like this one is getting mucked about with too much to warrant £16 of yeast...

W

 

[JonBrew]

Hey JonBrew,

No, there was no krausen on the top, so I imagine it has dropped.

Looks like this brew is presenting a few challenges. Certainly a learning experience!

I think this is stalling. Ive some more WLP005 on its way, so how about this for a plan....

Raise temp to 22 and get a few swirls underway.
when WLP005 gets here, pitch that without starter into my now 1.030 wort.

I wonder whether that is a "waste" of yeast though? Should I just cut my losses and re-hydrate the US-05 for this one? Means I save the WLP005 for another brew, this time with a starter...

Im leaning to the US-05 now....feel like this one is getting mucked about with too much to warrant £16 of yeast...

W

I definitely would not pitch the wlp005 without a starter. If you were wanting to use that I'd say an active starter (at high krausen) would be the way to go

However, if it were me, I'd be inclined to rehydrate properly and pitch the US-05. It's pretty hardy stuff and I reckon will do the job even though you've got some alcohol in there. Also, it's less of a waste if this batch turns out to be not the greatest.

 

[JonBrew]

Deleted duplicate post

 

[foxbat]

As @JonBrew says, pitching an active starter at high krausen (about a litre should do it) is your best bet for a rescue at this stage.

 

[Wantser]

Thanks both.

An active starter at high krausen....just to confirm.

use my (just arrived) DME at 100g for 1L and pitch rehydrated US-05 (I also have S-04 now which might be better) - obvs sanitise pre-boil etc .

await krausen giving it the odd swirl - krausen forms (high activity) and then pitch the lot gently into the wort. Might be waiting 24hrs ish to do so.

I contacted Dan at Brew UK where I bought this from and he said to just leave it until saturday, check then and act if necessary. But it feels like it is stuck now from all your kind advice thus far and from the little I know and the digging Ive done.

All experience eh!

Cheers