"Super" Yeast - Not That Super!

[ScottE75]

Albert Einstien said - "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result" - If this is the case I should phone the men in white coats to come and get me!

I've been using Young's Super Yeast and Vinclasse Super Yeast (pot version) to make my wines. They work ok, but as soon as the ABV reaches 11% they down tools and go on strike. It's not a stuck ferment on the 4 separate gallons of wine I've made because I've tried restarting them.

So I've decided to start using Gervin GV4, which is a bit expensive but I want to see if I get a different result. Failing that I'll just have to accept that someone has cursed me for some misdeed in my shady past :whistle:

 

[LED_ZEP]

I use the GV4 if I want all the sugars to be used by the yeasties as I can always back sweeten. My go to is EC1118 and never had any problems with it (If you have a Wilko near I read somewhere that their wine yeast is EC1118).

 

[Gunge]

I use the GV4 if I want all the sugars to be used by the yeasties as I can always back sweeten. My go to is EC1118 and never had any problems with it (If you have a Wilko near I read somewhere that their wine yeast is EC1118).

I've heard that about Wilko's general purpose wine yeast, too. Either way it's good stuff and what I use for the missus' wine. Stopped using YSWYC a while back - too fussy. However, when I went to Wilko's for yeast sometime in the summer, they'd run out so I nipped to the nearby HBS to see what they had, and I ended up with some Youngs 'All Purpose White' in 5g sachets. I've found it to be reliable and steady, and the missus says wine made with it is 'better' - though she can't put her finger on how it is better! But be warned - it froths up like crazy at first.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I use youngs super wine yeast compound and have for years i used to use a total of 1100g of sugar in a DJ which i believe is around 13% or 14% and have never had a problem, i always add a level teaspoon of yeast nutrient to give it some help so that may be why i have never had a problem.

 

[Roddy]

Maybe just bad luck fella

I've used the youngs super wine yeast compound on my last dozen or so 25L batches of WOW that are usually round about 13% (by design) and never a stall, or failure to ferment out to 0.990

If it's been a few of yours that haven't done the biz, why not post up what you're using, maybe it's the ingredients ?



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[IainM]

I had a duff batch of super wine yeast compound, always stalled around 9%. I just boil it up as yeast nutrient now. The wilko stuff never failed me, though I have a couple of packets of the crossmyloof stuff in the fridge which I'm looking forward to testing out soon.

 

[Gunge]

I use youngs super wine yeast compound and have for years i used to use a total of 1100g of sugar in a DJ which i believe is around 13% or 14% and have never had a problem, i always add a level teaspoon of yeast nutrient to give it some help so that may be why i have never had a problem.

I've never had a problem with it stalling, just that the last quarter of fermentation seems to drag on forever; with the other yeasts I mentioned it comes to a fairly abrupt halt so you're not left guessing and waiting. Why would you add nutrient as it is already combined with the yeast in YSWYC? Course, you have to add some to other yeasts. They also shove bentonite in it, which as far as I can tell serves no purpose except coat the bottom of the FV in clay and grit-like stuff!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I know there is nutrient in it but in winter i do not use any kind of heating on the the DJ's, FV's so i have always stuck a bit in to give the yeast all the help i can.

I don't know if it is the same with other yeasts but i have noticed if i leave my wines a week or two after they have finished fermenting they start to clear quite quickly from the top down so maybe the Bentonite is doing what it is supposed to -

A clay powder used to clear wine. It forms a gelatinous paste which causes the proteins to coagulate and sink to the bottom leaving a brilliantly clear wine.

.

 

[alvin]

Hi Scott, as Roddy said, "why not post up what you're using, maybe it's the ingredients?" Otherwise we are just guessing in the dark. FWIW, all my incomplete ferments occurred when I forgot to add nutrient.

 

[ScottE75]

If it's been a few of yours that haven't done the biz, why not post up what you're using, maybe it's the ingredients ?

What I use depends on what I'm making, but generally

Juice for WOW, honey for Mead and Ginger for Ginger wine, etc
White sugar (except in mead)
Sometimes GJC
Pectolase in fruit wines 1 tsp
Tannin powder 1/2 tsp
Acid mix 1 tsp (only in wine that needs it, but I found my orange wine incipid, so might add some to fruit wines to see the difference)
Yeast nutrient 1 tsp
Super yeast 1 heaped tsp

I add 1 campden tablet at the start 24 hours before adding the yeast

All the wines bubble like mad for the first week, but when they reach S.G. 1.030 they stop. Really frustrating!

 

[Gunge]

Acid mix 1 tsp (only in wine that needs it, but I found my orange wine incipid, so might add some to fruit wines to see the difference)


All the wines bubble like mad for the first week, but when they reach S.G. 1.030 they stop. Really frustrating!

I add 4tsp citric acid to a 4-5 gallon batch. Don't be afraid to go heavy with the ol' citric; it gets used up during fermentation and the yeast love it. I found that YSWYC also slowed down considerably at 1030ish but never stopped completely, whereas other yeasts I've used never stumbled on that fence. Try chucking 3tsp of citric acid in and see if that gets it going.

 

[ScottE75]

Try chucking 3tsp of citric acid in and see if that gets it going.

Do you mean to the ones that wont ferment or my future wines?

I only brew 1 gallon batches, but I think more acid won't hurt, especially when some wines I make lack that "zing" you expect from wine.

I keep meticulous notes on the brews I make, and I treat every brew like an experiment. You've got to be in it to win it, so the more I brew the more experience I get. Just a process of elimination.

I'm going to try the new yeast I bought and add more acid, and see what happens.

 

[Gunge]

Do you mean to the ones that wont ferment or my future wines?

I only brew 1 gallon batches, but I think more acid won't hurt, especially when some wines I make lack that "zing" you expect from wine.

Ah, sorry. In that case try adding just one tsp. For future brews, add a generous tsp at the start, and another one if things slow down unacceptably. For the 'zing', you need to add citric when fermentation has completely stopped as it is metabolized into something else (not sure what!) whilst fermenting.

 

[LED_ZEP]

What I use depends on what I'm making, but generally

Juice for WOW, honey for Mead and Ginger for Ginger wine, etc
White sugar (except in mead)

What sugar do you use? The reason I ask is I'm lead to believe that beet sugars don't ferment out fully as apposed to cane sugar such as T&L

 

[alvin]

Hi Scott, like yourself, I am trying to progress through trial and error. I might have been lucky in that I have only ever used Lalvin yeasts (D47 for whites, K1V for reds, either one for pinks). Also, as I propagate the yeast from lees (stored in a pet at room temperature, sometimes for many months), I have wondered if the yeast consequently become more fit for purpose through natural selection.


For sure, taking chances and seeing what happens is enjoyable and often rewarding.

 

[ScottE75]

What sugar do you use?

It depends where I shop that week. I use whitworth's from Iceland and Aldi's own "The Pantry" sugar. I've looked at both and they don't say what the source is.

 

[LED_ZEP]

Hi Scott, like yourself, I am trying to progress through trial and error. I might have been lucky in that I have only ever used Lalvin yeasts (D47 for whites, K1V for reds, either one for pinks). Also, as I propagate the yeast from lees (stored in a pet at room temperature, sometimes for many months), I have wondered if the yeast consequently become more fit for purpose through natural selection.


For sure, taking chances and seeing what happens is enjoyable and often rewarding.

I asked the same question re natural selection but if you read the reply I got it makes sense.

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=73610

 

[LED_ZEP]

It depends where I shop that week. I use whitworth's from Iceland and Aldi's own "The Pantry" sugar. I've looked at both and they don't say what the source is.

When I started brewing I was told to avoid beet sugar but that advice doesn't seem to be as widely believed these days.

I now tend to use dextrose, as again I'm told by people with better knowledge than myself that its right handed molecular structure means the yeasties don't need to convert it before doing their thing.

 

[alvin]

Thanks LED. That link provides a highly informative explanation. It is also consistent with my experience of the exhausted yeast in lees being slow starters in a new must while only a small sample of active yeast from a current ferment rapidly starts fermentation in a new must.

 

[Tau]

I've found that yswy bottoms out around 14% abv and struggles beyond that. Sometimes calculations are incorrect and you have more sugar to your proposed abv', this yeast isn't the best for a country style wine were fruit sugar levels might be higher than og with an hydrometer might read. For example where fruit is present and not just mixed juice, the fruit wouldn't change the reading but would still have sugar present. Better off with gv4 though.