Stuck Brew and allowing for non fermentables

[OlsBean]

14 days ago I put Coopers Inn Keeper's Daughter with 1kg Spraymalt Light + 1kg Coppers Brew Enhancer 3 in the FV @18ºc SG 10.052 (22L) it started well and there was a lot of activity for about 4 days after 8 Days I checked the Gravity and it was 10.020 with no apparent activity in the airlock and the Krausen had died right back.

I followed the Stuck Brew Advice Post.

I gave it a gentle stir and raised the temperature to 21ºc and left it for a couple of days, raising the temperature gave a couple of hours of airlock activity but nothing else and checking the gravity it was still at 10.020, so I tried dry hopping it to if that would encourage anything and once again a few hours of activity but nothing else, I then added a 100g of Dextrose (as a syrup) once again a few hours of activity and still a day later at 10.020 so I finally repitched some yeast and again we had about 8 hours of activity off that and it is now at 10.018.

I have though just realised (I am still new to Brewing) that the Coopers Beer Enhancer 3 contains 200g of Maltodextrin which if I am not mistaken is non fermentable? So my question is how would this skew the gravity? Is there a calculator to work out the none fermentable impact on gravity somewhere?

TIA

 

[Sandimas]

I would expect that to fully ferment out down to 1010-1012.

Sadly my experience of stuck brews is like your own, you may be able to shift them a few points from 1020 to 1018 but I've never managed to get one fully re-started and ferment down to 1010.

 

[Cwrw666]

I have used amylase enzyme (which breaks down complex sugars into fermentables) in the past. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.

 

[Dutto]

Personally, I have only ever managed to re-start a stuck brew and get it to go down to 1.010 on one occasion. It was a Woodfordes Wherry and I used my normal technique.

All the other "stuck" brews have had high levels of non-fermentable sugars in them (mainly stouts) and although they were "stuck" at the 1.020 or 1.024 level they only came down to 1.014/1.016 after a further two weeks; at which time they were kegged (a PB has a pressure relief device for "just in case") with 3g per litre of Brewing Sugar and then carbonated and conditioned as per normal. They have all turned out okay. :thumb:

I regard a "stuck" brew as still being "wort" and not "beer" so MY normal technique (one that it NOT recommended by many others on this Forum - but it works for ME) is to "beat it as if it owes me money" to aerate the brew, add an extra packet of Wilco Ale Yeast, add a teaspoonful of Wilco Yeast Nutrient, stick the lid back on the FV and leave it for a further two weeks.

Using Wilco Ale Yeast, I normally increase the temperature from 19*C to 22*C over the first week of a brew so I do the same on the week following the re-pitch of a "stuck" brew.

Enjoy! :thumb:

PS

With regard to a lack of activity from the Air-lock or Blow-Off Tube I usually put this down to a leaky FV rather than a lack of fermentation. On many occasions the only sign I have had that fermentation is taking place is the appearance of a krausen and the slow growth of trub, seen through the walls of my FV.

 

[OlsBean]

Thank you, as for the FV I think I mostly manage a good seal, I use those wine ones with the screw caps, where I Vaseline the ring seals.

I was still wondering though if anyone knew how to calculate the Gravity offset of Unfermentables?

TIA

 

[terrym]

I was still wondering though if anyone knew how to calculate the Gravity offset of Unfermentables?

The Brewers Friend calculator has an allowance for Maltodextrin.
Then use this for Coopers Enhancers

• Brew Enhancer 1 - 60% dextrose, 40% maltodextrin
• Brew Enhancer 2 - 50% dextrose, 25% maltodextrin, 25% light dry malt
• Brew Enhancer 3 - 50% light dry malt, 30% dextrose, 20% maltodextrin

Punch the initial fermentables in then an estimated OG and FG will appear. I have found it accurate when I have used it for kits and extract brews. The only real unpredictable is the yeast performance

 

[OlsBean]

The Brewers Friend calculator has an allowance for Maltodextrin.
Then use this for Coopers Enhancers

• Brew Enhancer 1 - 60% dextrose, 40% maltodextrin
• Brew Enhancer 2 - 50% dextrose, 25% maltodextrin, 25% light dry malt
• Brew Enhancer 3 - 50% light dry malt, 30% dextrose, 20% maltodextrin

Punch the initial fermentables in then an estimated OG and FG will appear. I have found it accurate when I have used it for kits and extract brews. The only real unpredictable is the yeast performance

Thank you, I did look on there originally and could not find a calculator that allowed for NonFermentables or NonFermentables by name, I've just looked again and have gone through them and still can't, not sure if I am just missing the obvious, would you have a direct link to it please Terry, TY

 

[Sandimas]

Brewers Friend is here
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator

I just plugged your figures in and got an FG of 1013, so a little higher than usual due to the non-fermentables but still lower than you have. As Terry says, it is hard to predict yeast performance - presume you used the Coopers Yeast (it's usually quite reliable).

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
1 lb of maltodextrin in 1 US gallon of water has a SG of 1.040.
That means that 200g in 22 litres should add only about 3 SG points - the FG of the wort is about 1.015, ABV of about 4.8%.
Have you used a low-attenuating yeast?

 

[terrym]

Thank you, I did look on there originally and could not find a calculator that allowed for NonFermentables or NonFermentables by name, I've just looked again and have gone through them and still can't, not sure if I am just missing the obvious, would you have a direct link to it please Terry, TY

There is no allowance for 'non fermentables', but there one for maltodextrin which is all you are interested in if you are using Coopers Enhancer, plus the LME, DME and dextrose.
Cooper yeast was normally quite predictable, but since they revised the range 2 years ago they seem to be using more (and different) yeasts, and the new ones I have tried are less predictable. I use this to see what I am getting
https://club.coopers.com.au/static/media/attachments/1490244512_3_110.pdf
The Innnkeepers kit looks to be using a wheat yeast. I don't brew wheat beers but others may be able to advise on the generic properties of the yeast.
Finally if your brew SG is now coming down, albeit slowly, personally I would rouse it every day to give it some encouragement. And you now appear to be about 65% attenuation which isnt a complate disaster it just means that the end product might be a little sweet if it stays there, although I would think of using PET bottles rather than glass so that I could monitor the bottle pressure in the unlikely event it did kick off again.

 

[OlsBean]

Brewers Friend is here
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator

I just plugged your figures in and got an FG of 1013, so a little higher than usual due to the non-fermentables but still lower than you have. As Terry says, it is hard to predict yeast performance - presume you used the Coopers Yeast (it's usually quite reliable).

Thank you, yes I used the yeast that came with the kit and I repitched with Young's Brew Active Yeast (1 tsp)

Hi!
1 lb of maltodextrin in 1 US gallon of water has a SG of 1.040.
That means that 200g in 22 litres should add only about 3 SG points - the FG of the wort is about 1.015, ABV of about 4.8%.
Have you used a low-attenuating yeast?

Thank you, that's what I was looking for, I used the yeast that came with the Inn Keepers Daughter kit.

There is no allowance for 'non fermentables', but there one for maltodextrin which is all you are interested in if you are using Coopers Enhancer, plus the LME, DME and dextrose.
Cooper yeast was normally quite predictable, but since they revised the range 2 years ago they seem to be using more (and different) yeasts, and the new ones I have tried are less predictable. I use this to see what I am getting
https://club.coopers.com.au/static/media/attachments/1490244512_3_110.pdf
The Innnkeepers kit looks to be using a wheat yeast. I don't brew wheat beers but others may be able to advise on the generic properties of the yeast.
Finally if your brew SG is now coming down, albeit slowly, personally I would rouse it every day to give it some encouragement. And you now appear to be about 65% attenuation which isnt a complate disaster it just means that the end product might be a little sweet if it stays there, although I would think of using PET bottles rather than glass so that I could monitor the bottle pressure in the unlikely event it did kick off again.

Thank you Terry.

 

[OlsBean]

Well despite the higher than I would have liked FG (10.018 in the end), this has actually turned out to be a really nice tasting and clear beer, great head retention and lacing. I've racked it to a PB and dry hoped it in the PB (Bag & Marbles) with 15G each of Cascade & Citra Pellets which has really given it that little something extra.

 

[Dutto]

That looks beautiful. Well done! :thumb: