Stronger than predicted!

[paintingken]

I brewed my first all grain beer after 4 extract brews and it was predicted to be 5.4% and turned out at 6.6%
To be fair, I did alter the recipe (don't ask) It's a take on Brewdogs Punk IPA.

The recipe was for 4.38kg of extra pale and 250g of caramalt
I rounded it up to 4.75kg of extra pale and 250g of caramalt (not sure why, maybe I like round numbers)

Do you think that much extra grain would equal such a rise in alcohol? To be fair this is by no means a mistake, the early signs are that it tastes lovely. It will be ready in a couple of weeks but the samples were good.

The target OG was 1053 - Target FG was 1011
I got pre boil 1043 - OG 50 - FG 1001

I'm just wondering wether I mashed too hot or what else may result in these results? The recipe said mash for 75 minutes at 66ºC, I mashed at that temp for 60 minutes and batch sparged for 15. The recipe is in the Brewdog book and doesn't quite break it down like online recipes.

Being my first AG I did end up with just 19L in my FV as opposed to 23L, I was not sure how much kettle loss there would be or boil off. I now know I would need an extra 4L of water from the off. This could also be the issue?

Any help on glaring mistakes I may have made would be much appreciated.

 

[AdeDunn]

Looks like your yeast attenuated higher than the recipe calls for, or you measured the FG whilst the wort was still warm and forgot to adjust accordingly when you took the OG. I'd bet on the former. Would happen if you used a French Saison yeast, a fermenter that had been used for a French Saison yeast before, or some Kveik yeasts maybe...

Your BH efficiency (unless you measured warm) was lower than estimated in the recipe though, AND the extra grain didn't inrease OG either, so the extra grain isn't to blame no. If it was the grain the OG would be higher than estimated, not lower. As it's the FG much lower, it's an attenuation issue, which means yeast probably, or infection (don't think infections are usually that fast though, unless it's good old French Saison cross contamination...).

 

[paintingken]

Looks like your yeast attenuated higher than the recipe calls for, or you measured the FG whilst the wort was still warm and forgot to adjust accordingly when you took the OG. I'd bet on the former. Would happen if you used a French Saison yeast, a fermenter that had been used for a French Saison yeast before, or some Kveik yeasts maybe...

Your BH efficiency (unless you measured warm) was lower than estimated in the recipe though, AND the extra grain didn't inrease OG either, so the extra grain isn't to blame no. If it was the grain the OG would be higher than estimated, not lower. As it's the FG much lower, it's an attenuation issue, which means yeast probably, or infection (don't think infections are usually that fast though, unless it's good old French Saison cross contamination...).

I see, I guess you are right about the extra grain, it would have raised the OG.
There's a chance it could have been too warm when the OG reading was done, I left it an hour or 2 but should measure next time, thanks. I have only ever had IPA's in the FV apart from some elderflower champagne which I used a tiny bit of bread yeast in. I have been cleaning it like a mad man, just to remove the smell. Rookie lock down error!
The IPA's have been dry kit yeasts and this brew was the live wyeast. I use the VWP to clean it but I guess you can never be too clean. Hope it tastes good when done.

 

[AdeDunn]

Yeah, if you measure the temp of the wort when you check the SG, you can easily adjust for it, plenty of sites that will do it for you even.

I've had yeasts over attenuate too bud, can happen sometimes. Fermenting a bit on the warm side, mashing on the on the cooler side for longer (you didn't do that though), or yeast that's gotten contaminated at the factory/packaging stage. I believe the brewing industry had a problem with that not long ago. The yeast in French Saison is a slightly different strain which produces enzymes that convert more complex sugars into nice fermentable ones. This yeast managed to get into a whole bunch of yeasts where it didn't belong. Fun times.... It's a beast of a strain, usually fermenting out at somewhere between 1.003 and 1.000 in my experience. I like the flavour with it luckily and was using it deliberately. lol There are some bods on here who can tell you way more about it if you want to know more. If you want to know what to look out for, I found it gave a sort of citrus/honey/pepper hint (although I often brewed with bit of black pepper...), and although you'd get a very low FG the mouth feel is still not thin with it. So if it's that, you should still get a good beer.

If you however start smelling tobacco (as in unsmoked stuff, my dad rolls his own...) during fermentation, worry.... Had that a couple of times too, and yeah, that was wild yeast infections, producing beer that tasted like nothing you'd want to drink.... Probably a local thing though, as wild yeasts often vary by locality. Seems that my local ones are ruddy rank. lol

 

[paintingken]

Yeah, if you measure the temp of the wort when you check the SG, you can easily adjust for it, plenty of sites that will do it for you even.

I've had yeasts over attenuate too bud, can happen sometimes. Fermenting a bit on the warm side, mashing on the on the cooler side for longer (you didn't do that though), or yeast that's gotten contaminated at the factory/packaging stage. I believe the brewing industry had a problem with that not long ago. The yeast in French Saison is a slightly different strain which produces enzymes that convert more complex sugars into nice fermentable ones. This yeast managed to get into a whole bunch of yeasts where it didn't belong. Fun times.... It's a beast of a strain, usually fermenting out at somewhere between 1.003 and 1.000 in my experience. I like the flavour with it luckily and was using it deliberately. lol There are some bods on here who can tell you way more about it if you want to know more. If you want to know what to look out for, I found it gave a sort of citrus/honey/pepper hint (although I often brewed with bit of black pepper...), and although you'd get a very low FG the mouth feel is still not thin with it. So if it's that, you should still get a good beer.

If you however start smelling tobacco (as in unsmoked stuff, my dad rolls his own...) during fermentation, worry.... Had that a couple of times too, and yeah, that was wild yeast infections, producing beer that tasted like nothing you'd want to drink.... Probably a local thing though, as wild yeasts often vary by locality. Seems that my local ones are ruddy rank. lol

Great, all good pointers. I did struggle to get it down to the desired temp to pitch the yeast, chilling it was fine but the last few degrees seemed to take an age and maybe I willed down the last measurement. It was a warm day. Definitely no unusual smells from it and I always drink the FG sample, I guess that's a thing? Tasted great. If the yeast was a rogue batch then I can absolve any blame but will certainly sharpen this part of it, temperature wise. Thank you.

 

[AdeDunn]

If it tastes good, don't worry about it, I never did with all of the brews where my efficiency was way higher than estimated... lmao

 

[Horners]

I brewed my first all grain beer after 4 extract brews and it was predicted to be 5.4% and turned out at 6.6%
To be fair, I did alter the recipe (don't ask) It's a take on Brewdogs Punk IPA.

The recipe was for 4.38kg of extra pale and 250g of caramalt
I rounded it up to 4.75kg of extra pale and 250g of caramalt (not sure why, maybe I like round numbers)

Do you think that much extra grain would equal such a rise in alcohol? To be fair this is by no means a mistake, the early signs are that it tastes lovely. It will be ready in a couple of weeks but the samples were good.

The target OG was 1053 - Target FG was 1011
I got pre boil 1043 - OG 50 - FG 1001

I'm just wondering wether I mashed too hot or what else may result in these results? The recipe said mash for 75 minutes at 66ºC, I mashed at that temp for 60 minutes and batch sparged for 15. The recipe is in the Brewdog book and doesn't quite break it down like online recipes.

Being my first AG I did end up with just 19L in my FV as opposed to 23L, I was not sure how much kettle loss there would be or boil off. I now know I would need an extra 4L of water from the off. This could also be the issue?

Any help on glaring mistakes I may have made would be much appreciated.

original gravity should have been significantly higher given the fact that it was 4 litres more concentrated than anticipated. Also on the hydrometer correction stuff, if you take reading in warmwort the real gravity is even higher than that observed.

 

[AdeDunn]

original gravity should have been significantly higher given the fact that it was 4 litres more concentrated than anticipated. Also on the hydrometer correction stuff, if you take reading in warmwort the real gravity is even higher than that observed.

Aye, it's the classic getting used to your equipment too high a BH efficiency estimate. I did the same thing on some of my early AG brews, then as I got used to my equipment first I hit 75%, then 80/82% and started ending up overshooting on efficiency and having to adjust downwards... It could have read low as he was reading the OG on warm wort without adjustment for the temp, hence I mentioned that. The FG though been so low is 100% attenuation related I'd say still, and the elephant in the room. His yeast went to town and partied hard. lol

 

[foxbat]

FG = 1.001 is potentially worrying. Which yeast did you use and can you confirm you don't mean 1.010 ?

 

[paintingken]

FG = 1.001 is potentially worrying. Which yeast did you use and can you confirm you don't mean 1.010 ?

I used Wyeast 1056 as the recipe stipulated and the reading was definitely 1.001. The yeast was a smack pack, I wonder if I didn't leave enough time for it to do its magic in the packet? I'm sure it was a couple of hours and it did expand.

 

[foxbat]

I used Wyeast 1056 as the recipe stipulated and the reading was definitely 1.001. The yeast was a smack pack, I wonder if I didn't leave enough time for it to do its magic in the packet? I'm sure it was a couple of hours and it did expand.

It's not the nutrient pack, that doesn't affect attenuation in the way that you're seeing. Assuming your hydrometer is reading 1.000 in room temperature water (does it?) then I just can't see how a 66C mash and a fermentation with 1056 can get down that low without the help of something else unknown in there. However, if it tastes good then that unknown thing whether it's wild yeast or bacteria could be a good thing!

 

[Sandimas]

I really would check your Hydrometer, in 180+ brews I've never had an FG anywhere near 1.001: 1.010 is the norm, very occasionally 1.008.

I recently bought a new hydrometer and it was out, the paper had slipped inside the glass tube.

 

[MickDundee]

I agree with @darrellm and @foxbat. The main Chico strain yeasts tend to stop around 1.008-1.011 with me and I would assume a 66C mash would bring you into the middle of this range.

Even the 3 Saisons I’ve brewed stopped at 1.003, 1.002 and 1.001. I did a Brut IPA once that fermented to 0.998 with MJ44 but it had some help from a special enzyme.

 

[paintingken]

It's not the nutrient pack, that doesn't affect attenuation in the way that you're seeing. Assuming your hydrometer is reading 1.000 in room temperature water (does it?) then I just can't see how a 66C mash and a fermentation with 1056 can get down that low without the help of something else unknown in there. However, if it tastes good then that unknown thing whether it's wild yeast or bacteria could be a good thing!

My hydrometer does sink 3 points lower in room temperature water. I adjusted all of the measurements to allow for those 3 digits. I'm sure I read that was the thing to do or start slicing bits off. Do you think that could account for so much difference? I think I should upgrade that! If I accidentally mashed hotter than 66ºC do you think that would account for it? I'm pretty sure I didn't though.

 

[paintingken]

I really would check your Hydrometer, in 180+ brews I've never had an FG anywhere near 1.001: 1.010 is the norm, very occasionally 1.008.

I recently bought a new hydrometer and it was out, the paper had slipped inside the glass tube.

It's looking like I may need to upgrade that then. I thought previous brews have tasted pretty accurate but I guess the power of persuasion is strong.

 

[foxbat]

My hydrometer does sink 3 points lower in room temperature water. I adjusted all of the measurements to allow for those 3 digits. I'm sure I read that was the thing to do or start slicing bits off. Do you think that could account for so much difference? I think I should upgrade that! If I accidentally mashed hotter than 66ºC do you think that would account for it? I'm pretty sure I didn't though.

If it's out by minus .003 then you just add .003 to the reading to get what it really is. My finishing hydrometer is out by minus .001 so I add .001 to every reading.

Mashing hotter will get you more unfermentable sugars (unfermentable by the usual beer yeasts, that is) and would result in a higher FG because there's more sugar left in the beer. Mashing lower will get you a lower FG.

 

[paintingken]

If it's out by minus .003 then you just add .003 to the reading to get what it really is. My finishing hydrometer is out by minus .001 so I add .001 to every reading.

Mashing hotter will get you more unfermentable sugars (unfermentable by the usual beer yeasts, that is) and would result in a higher FG because there's more sugar left in the beer. Mashing lower will get you a lower FG.

Yes, sorry, I meant .003. Okay, just ruling out where any other errors may have occurred, the mash was fine then (for my standard). For such a relatively cheap bit of kit I may order another hydrometer just to rule out that possible error.

Tasting the finished product should reveal any tastes that shouldn't be there infection wise. I will find out next week. Maybe my FV is haunted by a ghost yeast

 

[paintingken]

Something I failed to mention as I thought it was of no consequence is that I used Clarity Ferm before adding my yeast.

I have been listening to a podcast about gluten free beer brewing and to be fair 70% of it went over my head but it was mentioned that yeast loves the enzymes used to knock down the gluten. Clarity Ferm was not mentioned specifically and I can't find a google search leading to this being an issue other than possibly altering it by .002.

Maybe the perfect storm happened in my FV?

Perfect if you don't like operating heavy machinery after a few of them.

Or am I clutching at straws?