Still confused as usual!

[Rotation]

Just trying to get the hang of my pressure fermenters and bought two kits to try out the system. I bought the Festival New Zealand Pilsner and the Beerworks Lager.

Now before buying the kits I did a little research on fermenting lager, well I say a little research meaning I`ve watched that many videos on Youtube and scoured so many web pages regarding this issue that my eyes are now square!

Anyway the one thing that came across loud and clear was "LOW AND SLOW". Low temperature and long fermentation. Now I know I have a pressure fermenter but how did the kit manufacturers know this as the instructions for both kits say ferment between 20C and 23C? Did I misread those thousands of web pages or misunderstand the temp readings in the videos or have the kit suppliers installed a hidden camera in my cellar?

I was going to start the FV off at around 20C and 12psi and build it up to 23C and 15psi towards the end of fermentation (I can already hear your screams) but if anyone has any suggestions I would be grateful thanks. (No suggestions regarding web sites or videos to watch please).

 

[Rodcx500z]

When you say kits do you mean as in liquid malt in a pouch or can, if so they come with a generic ale yeast, you can swap this for a larger yeast of your choice, you will also need some sort of temp control ie a fridge with an inkbird

 

[RichardM]

When you say kits do you mean as in liquid malt in a pouch or can, if so they come with a generic ale yeast, you can swap this for a larger yeast of your choice, you will also need some sort of temp control ie a fridge with an inkbird

The temperature control shouldn't be so important if the op is pressure fermenting.

 

[Rodcx500z]

The temperature control shouldn't be so important if the op is pressure fermenting.

Not with an ale yeast, lager yeast ferments at lower temps 10c-15c

 

[RichardM]

Not with an ale yeast, lager yeast ferments at lower temps 10c-15c

I know, but I thought that one of the benefits of fermenting under pressure is that you don't have to worry so much about temperature and it allows lagers to be brewed at higher temperatures than usual.

 

[Rodcx500z]

it allows lagers to be brewed at higher temperatures than usual.

Well now i am confused having never brewed a proper larger, i do brew them but with ale yeast and they are very good. i just presumed to brew a proper one you have to use a bottom fermenting yeast at low temps

 

[RichardM]

Well now i am confused having never brewed a proper larger, i do brew them but with ale yeast and they are very good. i just presumed to brew a proper one you have to use a bottom fermenting yeast at low temps

My understanding is that if you brew under pressure you can do a lager with bottom fermenting yeast faster and at a higher temp than if not under pressure.

 

[Rodcx500z]

My understanding is that if you brew under pressure you can do a lager with bottom fermenting yeast faster and at a higher temp than if not under pressure.

I didn't know that

 

[dtashmore]

pressure fermentation suppresses esters from the yeast fermenting so you can ferment at higher temperatures without off flavors from the ferment, I have been pressure fermenting for a couple of years now mainly ales, in south Africa in the summer the temperatures are regularly above 30 so this helps a lot, in general the higher the temperature the higher the pressure needed, I try to keep my brews at 16psi for serving pressure directly into the keg with no exposure to air for the entire fermenting process, results so far very good.

 

[Caramel Ox]

There is an older thread about the Festival kit:
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/festival-new-zealand-pilsner.55419/
The answer to the OPs question is that the kit maker has assumed the buyer has no temperature control and so supplied an ale yeast with minimal esters (in this case probably California common). So no it won’t make a true lager unless you bought yeast separately but that doesn’t mean you won’t like the kit as supplied.

I would be wary of starting the fermentation under pressure, but I don’t pressure ferment so others would have a better idea about that.

 

[Rotation]

When you say kits do you mean as in liquid malt in a pouch or can, if so they come with a generic ale yeast, you can swap this for a larger yeast of your choice, you will also need some sort of temp control ie a fridge with an inkbird

I didn`t know that when I bought them but as luck would have it I also bought a couple of packets of WHC Einstien yeast as well so that`s my plan so far.........mmmmmmm never actually had a plan before?

 

[Rotation]

The yeast packet in the kit just states "California Lager" whatever that is?

 

[Rotation]

I will be starting this kit shortly and I intend to post a blow by blow account of everything I do with this brew. I will bare myself naked to the public! Kit content, times, SG, Temp, you know all the usual things and lets see how it progresses?

What`s the worst that can happen?

Remember "THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BAD BEER, IT`S JUST THAT SOME BEERS ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS"

 

[stuartmarler]

I brewed my first ever kits recently, one via fermentation bucket for about 2 weeks, then added sugar for second fermentation in a keg.
The other was in a oressured King Keg. 2 weeks for the ale, John Bill IPA, and was perfect. Both were heated using heat belts, as its been cold here in the UK.....

Am about to try a Cooper's Lager in the King Keg.... hoping for another success and possibly in about a week.....

 

[Rotation]

I brewed my first ever kits recently, one via fermentation bucket for about 2 weeks, then added sugar for second fermentation in a keg.
The other was in a oressured King Keg. 2 weeks for the ale, John Bill IPA, and was perfect. Both were heated using heat belts, as its been cold here in the UK.....

Am about to try a Cooper's Lager in the King Keg.... hoping for another success and possibly in about a week.....

Well done on your brewing success. I must admit to not being a fan of those Hi Tech heating belts. Probably due to the fact that I haven`t got one. I`m more of a **** it, **** it and bodge it type person so I use a builders trug purchased at B&Q two for £8 and a 100w fish tank heater bought on Amazon for £16. My chubbys fit perfectly in them and the heater keeps the water temp in the trug exactly the temp I set on the heater control.

 

[Rotation]

Something else now confuses the life out of me. I was always lead to believe that yeast were little round fat beasty thingies that swam around in sugar solution eating any bit of sugar they came across which resulted in them weeing alcohol and pumping Co2.

Now this is all well and good as its how we get our beloved beer but these fat little beasty thingies are also hairy! Now initially they swim around like some olympic athlete but as they keep pumping Co2 out the gas sticks to their hairy bodies and eventually over the course of time they reach a point where they are unable to move anymore. I was told therefore if I wished to achieve full fermentation I would need to agitate my FV to, a) release the attached Co2 from the little fat hairy beasty making my beer for me so that it could swim again and, b) to bring the sugar closer to those little fat hairy beasties.

I bet now someone`s going to tell me that in this modern age the little fat hairy beasties have been equipped with Hi Tech wet suits or they have nuclear submarines to stop the bubbles affecting them or something?

Is it any wonder I`m confused.

 

[Sadfield]

Everything you'll want to know (and plenty more) about hairy yeast.

https://wyeastlab.com/resource/prof...=LECTIN HYPOTHESIS:,cell wall of yeast cells.
I think, if you keep temperature stable and pitch the right quantity of yeast so there are young cells towards the end of fermentation, yeast shouldn't flocculate out too early.