Staying with Kits or moving on?

[Cornish Knocker]

I'm in a bit of a dilemma. Recently brewed a few kits, including a Woodfordes Wherry, Sundew and Brupak Linthwaite and will be getting a Ruby Red in the FV soon. Although these brews are still conditioning, a sneaky bottle or two of the Linthwaite has produced a lovely tasting pint, so really looking forward to trying a Wherry in a few weeks.

So.......if you're happy with the taste of a kit beer, what are the advantages on moving over to the BIAB process?

I've got all the equipment to do this, just need the ingredients, but on my calculations the costing for the ingredients isn't a lot different to the price of a Wherry kit etc., mainly due to the cost of the malt extract. It is also probably easier and quicker to do a kit.

Is the taste of a BIAB beer far superior?

Would be grateful of any thoughts/experience you may have. Thanks

C. K

 

[tommidolcetto]

I did one kit and then a few extract and partial mash brews before going BIAB. It's a lot cheaper because you're not using extract. Pale ale can work out at 20p a pint or less.

I have found that there is always more equipment to buy though!

 

[Duxuk]

For 20l I spend around £8 on my malt (Maris otter and crushed crystal), a couple of quid on yeast and upto £7 on hops. This produces BIAB ale of a quality you just can't buy in bottles from your supermarket. It's a world away from kit ale. I could spend a lot less on hops but I'm brewing up to a standard, not down to a price.
I'd pick a recipe and give it a go. It does take quite a bit longer but it's time well spent and I multi task on my brew days. I dog walk, work and various other tasks. I don't tend to drink ale. Brewing is far too serious a business to cloud it with alcohol.

 

[scott-ayling]

You don't use malt extract in biab, you use all grains unless your just doing a partial mash or extract brewing. Brewing with 100% grains is cheaper but I don't brew to save cash ( but the wife gets told that's why I do it ) I do it so I brew beers that I like and its a great hobby.

 

[jonnymorris]

Extract is expensive, grains are relatively cheap but it does mean you need to mash them. Also, I think you're talking about AG vs extract vs kits. BIAB is just a method of AG brewing.

The advantages for me, apart from those already mentioned, is having the flexibility to brew what you want and the ability to control all the many variables (or at least try to). The world is your oyster.

Is the taste of a [AG] beer far superior?

Do you think people would put all the extra effort in and talk about it on here ad nauseam if it wasn't?

 

[clibit]

Yes looks like you are confusing BIAB with extract brewing. BIAB is an all grain method that uses a bag for mashing the grains in the pot used for boiling. There is also partial mash which involves mashing some grains and adding extract, half and half ish. Pure extract beers are similar to kit beers but you have more control over the final beer, as you choose your speciality grains and your hops and yeast. Most extract brews involve steeping some grains. You get better beer this way, but not to the extent you do with an all grain method. All grain allows you to make beer however you want, to a recipe or by creating your own recipe using any ingredient you like, and produces beer of a much higher quality. I much prefer my own bottles to the vast majority of those you can buy. I've been amazed. Highly recommend it. Partial mash brewing also produces fantastic beer.

 

[Cornish Knocker]

Thanks for the replies so far, very useful.

I have of course got confused with the abbreviations. I am talking about going down the route of using malt extract rather than BIAB, as I don't have a mash tun.

I also am looking for quality rather than cost (within reason), so if going down the extract route can produce a far better beer than a kit then it is the road to go down.

Sorry for the mis-info

 

[LeithR]

One point to note, I see that you are based in Italy so some of the comments may not apply, they were aimed at us brewing in the UK. Certainly the economics of AG brewing here works out a lot cheaper and with practice a lot better than commercial beer or kits.

You have some homework to do to to find out if you can buy malted grains etc in Italy at a reasonable price. Buying from the UK for you would be very expensive I suspect.

There is certainly one member on here who malts his own grains then mills them so that may be something you might want to pursue. It looks like a hobby in itself.

Good luck with whatever approach you adopt hope it tastes good!! :

 

[LeithR]

as I don't have a mash tun

You don't need a mash tun for BIAB, all you need is a boiler preferably at least a 40L to get a comfortable 25L brew done in. The mashing takes place in a muslin bag which is steeped in the boiler at around 66*C then the bag is removed and the liquor is boiled with hop additions etc...

 

[jonnymorris]

...rather than BIAB, as I don't have a mash tun.

You don't need a mash tun for BIAB. You mash in the bag which is in your pot/boiler/kettle.

Edit: Damn. Beat me to it.

 

[LeithR]

Sorry Johnny!!

 

[Cornish Knocker]

as I don't have a mash tun

You don't need a mash tun for BIAB, all you need is a boiler preferably at least a 40L to get a comfortable 25L brew done in. The mashing takes place in a muslin bag which is steeped in the boiler at around 66*C then the bag is removed and the liquor is boiled with hop additions etc...

I knew there was some reason I couldn't fully go down the BIAB route as my boiler, from memory is a 30l one. Could do a smaller batch and see how I get on and take it from there.

I can easily get hops and malt here in Italy and hops for example are slightly cheaper than the Uk for exactly the same hops. Grains too are certainly comparable.

Obviously need to do some more research. :whistle:

 

[jonnymorris]

Could do a smaller batch and see how I get on and take it from there.

Sounds like a plan.

 

[billybacardi]

BREW IN A BAG, by Jon Finch. from amazon £2 for the kindle version, might help

 

[Stapsin]

knew there was some reason I couldn't fully go down the BIAB route as my boiler, from memory is a 30l one. Could do a smaller batch and see how I get on and take it from there.

You should be able to do a full size brew with a 30l pot. My stainless steel pot is not much bigger than that and before I made my own mash tun I just mashed in it also BIAB style. Just have to keep it warm with blankets etc. AG is so much more satisfying than kits, you won't look back once you start.

 

[MyQul]

as I don't have a mash tun

You don't need a mash tun for BIAB, all you need is a boiler preferably at least a 40L to get a comfortable 25L brew done in. The mashing takes place in a muslin bag which is steeped in the boiler at around 66*C then the bag is removed and the liquor is boiled with hop additions etc...

Not so. I did 24.5L in a 20L pot yesterday using the Maxi-BIAB tech. Basically a couple of sparges and concentrated wort diluted in the FV up to brew length.

 

[Monte Cristo]

I am happy with the quality of my kit beers and was quite happy to stay doing them, but as you get more absorbed in this creative hobby, it seems like a natural progression to move to producing a better result. There are some wonderful kits to try so my suggestion to you is try some more kits and you will know when it's time to move on. :hat:

 

[LeithR]

Maybe I'm just a brewing whore but, but i get pleasure from doing kits and BIAB. I do kits because sometimes they are on special and can be very cheap and they are great for experimenting with adding hops and other fermentables. I do BIAB for the generally better quality of the end product and again you can experiment.

Easy to do maxi biabs and also sparge the grain once removed from the boiler, this is a great way to get the most out of the grain bill.

 

[Pjam]

I think an extract brew can be done cheaply. Granted, not as cheap as AG and not that much cheaper than a Wherry kit but you learn a few things and have lots of control with a recipe of your choice or even one you invent.
The only new piece of equipment I need was a 20L boiling pan and that I found on evilbay for a tenner.

LME can be found for about £11 per 23L brew! (and not a weak one at that) :)

 

[clibit]

If you have a 30 litre pot, get a bag to fit it, and try some 19 litre BIAB brews. You will find loads of recipes that dont need adjusting cos 19 litres is the standard brew length in america. A 30 litre pot should be ideal.