Statues

[Clint Eastwood]

Tony a bit ott this thread is about statues Not a new world order.

It's all part of the same thing.

 

[MyQul]

I say leave this one in the water it's got its new place in history.

Afaik it's made of bronze. The scrappers will have had it out of the water and melted down by now

 

[foxy]

May as well rip down Auschwitz an Dachau, lets eliminate all history we don't like.

 

[MickDundee]

May as well rip down Auschwitz an Dachau, lets eliminate all history we don't like.

You do realise that Auschwitz and Dachau in their current forms don’t celebrate the Nazis don’t you?

 

[foxy]

You do realise that Auschwitz and Dachau in their current forms don’t celebrate the Nazis don’t you?

And do statues celebrate anything? If a statue is in poor taste then so are death camps, they are all part of history distasteful or not.

 

[kelper]

Statues are erected to celebrate a person. The Nazi death camps that have been preserved to commemorate an evil. There is no equivalency!

 

[MickDundee]

And do statues celebrate anything? If a statue is in poor taste then so are death camps, they are all part of history distasteful or not.

Statues like the one referred to in the OP were erected in honour of an individual. Edward Colston’s statue may have been erected to recognise the money he gave to causes in the city of Bristol, but the majority of his money was made as a director of the Royal African Company which held a monopoly over the African slave trade in Britain.

Under your logic, the Hungarians should never have pulled down the Stalin statue in 1956? Were Glasgow Sport & Culture wrong to destroy their Jimmy Savile statue? Was Disneyland wrong to remove their Bill Cosby statue?

I believe @kelper has covered the difference between statues and death camps rather succinctly above.

 

[foxy]

Then let them serve as a reminder, as do the death camps, change the plaque not pretend it never happened. It is history. Michael Bass has a statue in Derby for the money he gave away, what about the cost of human suffering of the female sex whose husbands beat them while intoxicated. Lots of statues around of people in history who has a dark side, removing statues doesn't obliterate it. What next burning books?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

So you think we should keep statues that deeply upset the black British people. They are an insult to their community and should go.

 

[foxy]

So will Churchill go also?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

So will Churchill go also?

No. We've got to move to a Black Opinion Matters and they are not treated as second class citizens.

 

[foxy]

So the Irish and the Welsh don't matter?

 

[MickDundee]

Then let them serve as a reminder, as do the death camps, change the plaque not pretend it never happened. It is history. Michael Bass has a statue in Derby for the money he gave away, what about the cost of human suffering of the female sex whose husbands beat them while intoxicated. Lots of statues around of people in history who has a dark side, removing statues doesn't obliterate it. What next burning books?

Did you deliberately pick Bass because he was a Liberal MP?

A brewery owner and the owner of a slave trading company are completely different. It’s like saying that baseball bats are used in assaults so the Yankees should tear down their Babe Ruth statue.

I can just imagine Disneyland’s Bill Cosby plaque now “Welcome to Disneyland! This statue was erected to honour comedian and actor Bill Cosby, who was accused of 40 years of sexual offences and eventually convicted on 3 counts of indecent assault and sentenced to 10 years in jail”.

 

[foxy]

A brewery owner and the owner of a slave trading company are completely different. Did you deliberately pick Bass because he was a Liberal MP?

I can just imagine Disneyland’s Bill Cosby plaque now “Welcome to Disneyland! This statue was erected to honour comedian and actor Bill Cosby, who was accused of 40 years of sexual offences and eventually sentenced to 3-10 years in jail for aggravated assault”.

As I said a dark side can be found for any statue, Mick Bass produced the worst drug known to civilization, giving his ill gotten gains to a good cause doesn't obliterate it.
Margaret Thatcher sent troops in to the Falklands get rid of her statues too. Doesn't matter that she saved the democratic system.

 

[MickDundee]

So the Irish and the Welsh don't matter?

Why only the Irish and the Welsh? You got a problem with the Scots? Churchill’s first Parliamentary seat was in Dundee after all.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

So the Irish and the Welsh don't matter?

Don't you get it all people matter and their views should be treated equally. Between my wife and I we have English, Irish, Welsh and Scottish parents, my granddaughter and grandson have a Turkish grandfather. I would be proud to have black ancestry what you need to accept we are all British and everyone's opinions should be treated equally. No one in Britain want statues that celebrate slavery. The only debate is move the statues to a museum or melt them down. History does not need statues it needs truth and an acceptance of evil.

 

[MickDundee]

As I said a dark side can be found for any statue, Mick Bass produced the worst drug known to civilization, giving his ill gotten gains to a good cause doesn't obliterate it.

Margaret Thatcher sent troops in to the Falklands get rid of her statues too. Doesn't matter that she saved the democratic system.

Yes a dark side can be found in anything, but there’s not much “searching” required to find bad in a man whose main profession was to run a company that traded in human beings to be used as slaves.


I’d gladly get rid of Thatcher’s statues, and I’m pretty sure most of Fife, the West of Scotland, North East of England, Merseyside, the Potteries and the Welsh Valleys will agree. She is not very well liked across large swathes of the country, especially those in coal mining, ship building and steel making areas. You may not be aware but there was a website that ran for years called isthatcherdeadyet and the sole purpose was to wait for her death to start parties.

 

[kelper]

The people of each town should decide whether to remove a statue. HBO has removed 'Gone with the Wind' from its catalogue; where will this end.

Don't you get it all people matter and their views should be treated equally

In a democracy, the most popular opinions decide what gets done. We can't treat all opinions equally, some opinions are just vile.

 

[MickDundee]

In a democracy, the most popular opinions decide what gets done. We can't treat all opinions equally, some opinions are just vile.

But over time the most popular opinions change. You could be jailed for being gay in Scotland less than 40 years ago!

 

[foxy]

Don't you get it all people matter and their views should be treated equally. Between my wife and I we have English, Irish, Welsh and Scottish parents, my granddaughter and grandson have a Turkish grandfather. I would be proud to have black ancestry what you need to accept we are all British and everyone's opinions should be treated equally. No one in Britain want statues that celebrate slavery. The only debate is move the statues to a museum or melt them down. History does not need statues it needs truth and an acceptance of evil.

I don't give a rats arse about your history or family tree, putting a statue in a museum doesn't make a problem go away nor melting it down do you want to also destroy all the books? History is there to stay change a plaque is all that is needed. 'This bloke traded slaves'

Why only the Irish and the Welsh? You got a problem with the Scots? Churchill’s first Parliamentary seat was in Dundee after all.

Read your history about Churchill's involvement with the Irish and the Welsh.

Yes a dark side can be found in anything, but there’s not much “searching” required to find bad in a man whose main profession was to run a company that traded in human beings to be used as slaves.


I’d gladly get rid of Thatcher’s statues, and I’m pretty sure most of Fife, the West of Scotland, North East of England, Merseyside, the Potteries and the Welsh Valleys will agree. She is not very well liked across large swathes of the country, especially those in coal mining and steel making areas. You may not be aware but there was a website that ran for years called isthatcherdeadyet and the sole purpose was to wait for her death to start parties.

So you would prefer the unions to decide which democratically elected government should rule?