Statues

[Cheshire Cat]

Should statues to historical figures who were slavers, imperialists or just bad be removed completely from our cities. Or should there be a time limit I.e. Do we removed Richard the Firsts statues because he slaughtered 100's of Moslems. Obviously if there was a statue of Jimmy Savile in Leeds it would have to go.

 

[Clint]

I seen that statue of Desparate Dan...I liked it but given the current obesity problems it could encourage a pie-demic so if could have to go...
I also seen the statue of Arthur Lowe as the chap from Dads Army....looked nothing like him. That'll have to go.

 

[Linalmeemow]

Should statues to historical figures who were slavers, imperialists or just bad be removed completely from our cities. Or should there be a time limit I.e. Do we removed Richard the Firsts statues because he slaughtered 100's of Moslems. Obviously if there was a statue of Jimmy Savile in Leeds it would have to go.

Get 'em down, but get 'em in museums with some context as to who they were and why they were removed from their original location. There's no reason to celebrate slavers, but we shouldn't forget what they did either. Use the statues to educate the next generation.

That said, in the Bristol situation I'm just surprised it didn't happen sooner.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Looks like Rhodes is next

 

[MickDundee]

I seen that statue of Desparate Dan...I liked it but given the current obesity problems it could encourage a pie-demic so if could have to go...

It’s in Dundee

 

[Hanglow]

**** them all off. So many street named after highly questionable individuals too, have a competition to rename them while informing everyone about them at the same time.

This whole thing also raises questions about the teaching of history within the various curricula of the UK in schools as well of course, the appalling nature of the British Empire was barely touched on and I did higher history in 1997. Unless things have changed much since then?

 

[VW911]

Yeah. Let's just cancel history all together....
Let's just pretend the past never happened. (And made the world what it is now.)
Rose tinted specs are great...

 

[Hanglow]

Well that was the situation until now tbf

 

[Clint Eastwood]

**** them all off. So many street named after highly questionable individuals too, have a competition to rename them while informing everyone about them at the same time.

This whole thing also raises questions about the teaching of history within the various curricula of the UK in schools as well of course, the appalling nature of the British Empire was barely touched on and I did higher history in 1997. Unless things have changed much since then?

Although I agree a lot of bad things happened it also dragged many nations out of the dark ages. When I was at school during the 60's & 70's we were taught to be proud of the old empire, so I may have been brainwashed. The brainwashing continues it's just the focus has changed. I blame the hippies.

 

[Linalmeemow]

Yeah. Let's just cancel history all together....
Let's just pretend the past never happened. (And made the world what it is now.)
Rose tinted specs are great...

It's not about cancelling history, just not honouring people who did awful things. Their deeds should be remembered but not with statues in public or street names. As I said earlier, remove them to museums and display them with proper context.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I say leave this one in the water it's got its new place in history.

 

[Hanglow]

Although I agree a lot of bad things happened it also dragged many nations out of the dark ages. When I was at school during the 60's & 70's we were taught to be proud of the old empire, so I may have been brainwashed. The brainwashing continues it's just the focus has changed. I blame the hippies.

Have a read of this then tell that to the Indians/Pakistanis and Bangladeshis

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Inglorious-Empire-What-British-India/dp/1849048088




Empire was entirely based on exploitation. Removing or destroying wealth in order to control it through use of force or the threat of it. British exceptionalism was of course a problem then (still is although thankfully only really suffered by us now), in the same way as it was with a certain other european nation in the 20th century.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012...tailing some,an official review has concluded.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Have a read of this then tell that to the Indians/Pakistanis and Bangladeshis

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Inglorious-Empire-What-British-India/dp/1849048088




Empire was entirely based on exploitation. Removing or destroying wealth in order to control it through use of force or the threat of it. British exceptionalism was of course a problem then (still is although thankfully only really suffered by us now), in the same way as it was with a certain other european nation in the 20th century.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012...tailing some,an official review has concluded.

Like I said a lot of bad things happened. Most of the horrors in India were done by a private entity the "British India company". IF we didn't get there first another European country would putting us at risk. Have you read what the Russians did in comparison even to it's own people? Things were far more brutal globally & even more so the further you go back. Even the Arabs raided southern Europe for white slaves in the middle ages. Most White Europeans come from slaves from our own feudal system.
Look at the brutality of the state against it's own people in the UK in the middle ages, the Vikings etc.
Compare that to the brutality of the Japanese against prisoners of war in WW2. The list of brutality is endless.
I find it odd that only the Anglo Saxons have to apologise & atone for their long dead ancestors then apologise again & again, even though it wasn't us personally. If we are that bad the "BAME" are free to run a mile, yet they still risk their lives to come.
Whilst we have this multicultural peace festival navel gaze, the next brutal lot whoever they are will be waiting for the "Right moment" & will just march over us when the time is right. They won't stop to apologise.
Even a dog knows sometimes you need to get aggressive & attack to defend yourself. If you don't you'll be dead. It's not nice or right but that doesn't mean it is not going to happen. Sometimes an imperfect world is more stable than an idealistic one.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Tony
You miss the point this s not about the Middle Ages it's about continuing to display statues to the vile people who murdered thousands of people.

 

[kelper]

What about someone like George Washington? He was a slave owner but moved against slavery in later life. I think removing statues is pointless when current issues are more important. A plaque can be mounted near these statues describing the man's deeds. Most great historical figures were not without vices.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I get the anger over the Edward Colston statue andthe reason they threw it in the river as apparently they have been asking for it to be removed for years but where is this going to end will councils remove all statues if they consider they may be offensive to the BEM community?



The University of Liverpool has agreed to rename a building named after former prime minister William Gladstone due to his views on slavery.

Gladstone spoke out against abolition in Parliament because his family had slaves on plantations in the Caribbean.

Students wrote an open letter saying the move would "show solidarity in the rejection of Black oppression".

The university said it will work with students and staff "to agree an appropriate alternative name".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-52990464

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I believe this recognition of past racism and the eradicating of the symbols is a big step to the integration of the BEM community as British and not immigrants.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Tony
You miss the point this s not about the Middle Ages it's about continuing to display statues to the vile people who murdered thousands of people.

That was the original point of the thread. It's not where I was pointed to look.
What the whole thing is actually about is removing history & anything that went before. It's the way the globalist Neo-liberals create change & make our lives more restricted. The same as the Virus response they are accelerating their plans because the majority are waking up to them.
It was first used in South America by Pinochet on instructions from the Chicago school of economics.
He used mob rule & anarchy too with an iron fist once people started revolting. The same will happen here.
The left are now all over it using local councils & new "City regions" to remove democracy & power from the state and ruled by the global parliament of Mayors. We will get to vote for our mayor but he will take policy orders from the unelected city region council. Who in turn take policy from the unelected global parliament being run from the Hague.
The system is in place & all facts are available from their own websites if google will let you.
Another place to look is the government nudge unit who are using psychology in it's own words "Making people make better decisions for themselves". No democracy & no choice, this is your future. Behavioural Insights

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Sorry wrong link but they are third sector doing the same work .
This is the official government funded one who claim to be independent yet get funded by the government.
The Behavioural Insights Team

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Tony a bit ott this thread is about statues Not a new world order.