start of malolactic fermentation

[Gayle]

I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me what the first signs of ML fermentation are? I racked a TC into a clean DJ maybe a month ago, and was all set to bottle it tonight, and it now seems to be producing small bubbles round the edge of the DJ. Bubbles that I'm pretty sure weren't there before. I realise a pic of mine would help, so I'll try and find the camera.

Also, the cider only comes up to about an inch below the bottom of the "handle" on the DJ, so there are a good few inches of headspace and that is why I'd planned on bottling instead of leaving it for a few more months, in case oxidation or something happens. For future reference, should it be full nearly to the top? Thanks x

 

[Devonhomebrew]

Its should form a film if it has malo lactic youre best pming Graysalchemy about it

 

[graysalchemy]

As Dev says you start getting a white film over the top. The bubbles could still be yeast activity or residual gas still coming out.

MLF needs two thing lactobacillus and malic acid if you didn't add malic acid then you are probably not going to get MLF to any great extent as carton apple juice is low in malic acid.

If you are wanting MLF then it needs to be left for a good 2-3 months or longer. However if you are not then I would have thought after a month you are probably safe to bottle.

:thumb:

 

[Ken L]

What yeast did you use and have you deliberately inoculated the brew with bacteria ?

BTW: There's no sign of MLF on my cider yet.

 

[graysalchemy]

What yeast did you use and have you deliberately inoculated the brew with bacteria ?

BTW: There's no sign of MLF on my cider yet.

How long has it been?

 

[Ken L]

This is week three after the end of main fermentation - so it's been a month in the FV.
Started off with a culture from Old Rosie.
I might move the FV out into the utility room where it's cooler.

 

[alanywiseman.]

The first sign i got was a change in the smell of the brew. It started to take on that farmyardy smell then very small white specks appear on the surface of it. These then increase in number and size till it covers the surface of the cider at which point it begins to thicken.

 

[graysalchemy]

Ken 3 weeks is probably a little to soon.

Be patient it takes time :lol: :lol:

 

[Gayle]

Thanks for the replies, my cider is unlikely to have started MLF then, it's just little bubbles, not a "skin" on top or anything. It was carton apple juice, with no added malic acid or anything, and bog-standard cider yeast, so again, pretty unlikely! I think I'll just bottle it soon, it smells damn tasty (there's blueberry juice in there somewhere) and get another on the go. I'm still trying to build up a supply of homebrew so it's difficult to leave one gallon DJ's to age for longer than a month or two!

I might try the Old Rosie thing though, an experiment for another day

 

[graysalchemy]

Don't bother with a gallon put 5 gallons on at a time :thumb: :thumb:

 

[Gayle]

Don't bother with a gallon put 5 gallons on at a time :thumb: :thumb:

I'll be doing that soon, once the Finlandia kits I have are done! I only have plastic FV's though, I thought it wasn't a good idea to use a plastic FV as a secondary vessel due to oxygen getting in etc, over a long period of time? I've been racking the finlandia kit over to the plastic FV and only leaving a week or so til it clears a bit, before bottling, as my homebrew book suggests it's a big No-No to leave it in there any longer. And I'd need to get another large FV so the OH can do his ales....shopping time Or could he use any good clean large bucket as a bottling bucket?

 

[graysalchemy]

Plastic is fine I had one batch in for nearly 10 months. and I have had elderberry wines in plastic fro 2-3 years before now.

 

[Gayle]

Brilliant, thank you :thumb: I had briefly considered a 5 gallon glass DJ, but they're not cheap (probably not easy to clean or move around either) and I'm very likely to break it on one of the first few goes :grin: glad to hear plastic is fine, that will speed things up a bit!

 

[Ken L]

Don't bother with a gallon put 5 gallons on at a time :thumb: :thumb:

The FV will hold 30L. Why just to 5 gallons ?

 

[evanvine]

Now then young GA!
I can follow the Malic acid bit (apples) but the Lactic acid confuses me, do you have to add milk! :wha:

 

[Stanleythecat]

Now then young GA!
I can follow the Malic acid bit (apples) but the Lactic acid confuses me, do you have to add milk! :wha:

I think that would be lactose...

 

[evanvine]

I think that would be lactose...

Ok Stanley, how about this!

 

[theboytony]

I think that would be lactose...

Ok Stanley, how about this!

Why do you want to add lactic acid :wha:

 

[evanvine]

Why do you want to add lactic acid :wha:

I don't know that I do, I'm asking where the lactic bit of the "malolactic" ferment comes from.

 

[theboytony]

Malolactic fermentation turns the harsher tasting malic acid into a softer tasting lactic acid, its not the be all and end all of a decent cider though. If you wait long enough and get it then great if you wait long enough and don't get it then still great. :lol: