Some help with method on first AG brew

[Polcho]

I have the Brewzilla system.

I sent for and received the Tasty Table Beer kit from The malt Miller.

I am having a little difficulty with the instructions. I haven’t used the kit before, or done any AG brewing before and I am uncertain about some of the terminology/ instructions. I would appreciate any help.

I will attach a scanned copy of the method sheet, but I could do with understanding the following:

The batch size is 23L. How do I work out the quantity of the strike water.

The mash temp is 67, would the sparge water be the same temp?

The Boil:

It says:
Boil time 60 mins
60 min Magnum.

20 minute hop stand at 80c, Citra, Mosaic, Cascade, Chinook.

Does this mean boil for 60 mins, and add the Magnum at the end of 60 mins?

Then allow to cool to 80 c and add the rest of the hops for 20 mins

The fermentation temp is 18. So I take this as reduce to 18 and pitch the yeast. Would that be right?

Thanks, this is all probably simple after the first time, but it’s looking as clear as mud at present.

 

[Redwulf]

Its probably worth watching a few All grain Videos to get a good idea of the process but.

We generally count down with Boil Additions.

A 60 minute addtion is normally a bittering addition at the beginning of the boil
Then at the end of the boil you want to let it drop off the boil and either chill it to 80c and then add the hops.

For a 23 Litre generally I use about 32 Litres of water total split into a mash volume of 2.5-3.5L of water per KG of Grain and then the rest in the Sparge. Another brewzilla owner could give you a better idea of what they use for a 23L batch.

You want to chill it down to 18-20c before pitching.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Don't Panic - nothing will go horribly wrong if you don't quite follow the process (in fact, it's debatable whether there is a 'correct' process anyway - everyone has their preferences).
For the first few times I did AG I averaged out at 1-2 cockups per session, but the beer still tasted fine.
I'll have a look at your instruction sheet in a moment.

In the meantime I recommend that you have a read through of John Palmer's "how to brew AG" online - which is full of good advice: Brewing All-Grain Beer - How to Brew

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Yes... those instructions are probably designed for someone quite experienced.

The batch size is 23L. How do I work out the quantity of the strike water.

Most of the calculators you need can be found at via the 'calculators' tab at the top of this page (or the forum homepage). For the strike water volume and temperature use this one: Mash Calculator.
I make your total weight of grain 4.3kg, so use 11.25 litres of strike water

The mash temp is 67, would the sparge water be the same temp?

No - you make it hotter, so that when you add the grains (at room temp) the result is at your desired mash temp.
Using the calculator again, assuming your grains will be at 18ºC (garage temp) you want your strike water to be at about 76ºC

 

[Rodcx500z]

Magnum @60 mins means put them in for the full 60 min boil, sparge water is usually 75c

 

[Rodcx500z]

For a mash temp of 67c i would get it up to 71c then add the grain

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

It says: Boil time 60 mins
60 min Magnum.
20 minute hop stand at 80c, Citra, Mosaic, Cascade, Chinook.
Does this mean boil for 60 mins, and add the Magnum at the end of 60 mins?

Bring the wort fully to the boil while skimming off the scum, then add the magnum and keep at a good rolling boil for 60 min.

Then allow to cool to 80 c and add the rest of the hops for 20 mins

Yep precisely

The fermentation temp is 18. So I take this as reduce to 18 and pitch the yeast. Would that be right?

Yes that's right - cool to 18ºC, then aerate (a good splashy pour into a clean FV will do that for you nicely) then pitch the yeast, cover and put it in the garage.

 

[Polcho]

Right, thanks everybody. I’ll get on to those calculators and see if I get to the same place. Thank you.

 

[Horners]

Yes... those instructions are probably designed for someone quite experienced.


Most of the calculators you need can be found at via the 'calculators' tab at the top of this page (or the forum homepage). For the strike water volume and temperature use this one: Mash Calculator.
I make your total weight of grain 4.3kg, so use 11.25 litres of strike water

Not used a Brewzilla but that looks low for an all in one due to all the space below the maltpipe. In the GF 4.3kg would be more like 15L for the mash.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Not used a Brewzilla but that looks low for an all in one due to all the space below the maltpipe. In the GF 4.3kg would be more like 15L for the mash.

Ah - my apologies I didn't read carefully enough to realise that @Polcho was using an all-in-one

 

[chillipickle]

You can down load brewfarther app for free, then set your bewzilla profile.It makes life easy when you want to create recipies and work out volumes etc.

Next time you do an order get some rice hulls, if you are going to be using flaked oats, wheat etc a couple of handfulls will help with the sparge.
This is well worth a watch to help set brewzilla profile up.


https://brewfather.app/

 

[cushyno]

I've plugged some numbers into the old Brewers Friend Windows app I use. Based on 3.5L/kg mash thickness to allow for any deadspace you may have below the maltpipe and estimaating about 3L of deadspace for the sparge water, this gives:

Polcho's Tasty Table Beer
American Pale Ale

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L):                   23.0
Original Gravity (OG):            1.042  (°P): 10.5
Total Water Required (L):         33.45

Mash
----------------
Total Grain (kg):                 4.260
Grain Temp (°C):                  10.0
Strike Water (L):                 14.91
Grain Absorbtion (L/Kg):          0.90
Water / Grain Ratio (L/Kg):       3.50
Desired Mash Temp (°C):           67.0
Strike Water Temp (°C):           73.5
Total Mash Volume (L):            19.17

Sparge
----------------
Sparge Water (L):                 18.54
Sparge Deadspace (L):             3.00
Desired Sparge Temp (°C):         75.0
Sparge Water Temp (°C):           82.2

Boil
----------------
Top up Water added to Kettle (L): 0.0
Wort Volume before Boil (L):      26.6
SG before Boil:                   1.039  (°P): 9.8
Boil Length (Minutes):            60.0
% Evaporation per Hour (5-15%):   10.0
Wort Volume after Boil (L):       24.0
SG after Boil:                    1.042  (°P): 10.5
Losses to Trub and Chiller:       0.0
Final Volume (L):                 24.0
After Cooling (4% loss):          23.0

Which closely agrees with @Horners 15L estimate for strike water. You'll see the strike water temperature is a little higher than @Rodcx500z suggested but that may be due to my figure of 10°C for grain temperature. Sparge water shown here as 82ish°C to give a sparge of 75°C. That only applies if you haven't already mashed out through direct heating. If you have, then use 75°C for your sparge water temperature.

I hope this brings it all together for you. If it isn't perfect (and it won't be) it will be somewhere close and you may need to adjust water up or down with cold or boiling water from a kettle to by 1L or so to get the right temperatures. Temperature is more important than volumes!

You learn from this first attempt and adjust as necessary for the next time. It'll take a few goes to get it dialled in. Good luck!

 

[chillipickle]

That is a pretty good starting point cushyno.

I normally sparge to roughly 30ltrs to get 23ltrs in the fv.

 

[Polcho]

So I checked the grain weight. The packing slip says 2500g of Golden promise. The recipe says 2100g.

So I weighed the lot (it’s in one bag).

It comes to 4735g
So the packing slip says a total of 4660
The recipe says 4260.
So the grain is 475g different from the recipe.

I used the calculator and have 11. 84 L water at 76. 2 c.

My concern is that when I talked to them, I specifically asked for a lower alcohol, session type beer on the fruity side.

Using the All Grain OG, FG, ABV Calculator, assuming the extra weight was the Golden promise. I will come out at about 4.4.
if I find this is the case when I take an Og reading, can I adjust it with more water, without loosing taste?

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

I used the calculator and have 11. 84 L water at 76. 2 c.

Don't use that mate - I recommended the calculator before I realised you were using an all-in-one, so my apologies for that. Go with what @cushyno recommends instead

 

[Polcho]

Oki doki, thank you.

 

[cushyno]

So I checked the grain weight. The packing slip says 2500g of Golden promise. The recipe says 2100g.

So I weighed the lot (it’s in one bag).

It comes to 4735g
So the packing slip says a total of 4660
The recipe says 4260.
So the grain is 475g different from the recipe.

I used the calculator and have 11. 84 L water at 76. 2 c.

My concern is that when I talked to them, I specifically asked for a lower alcohol, session type beer on the fruity side.

Using the All Grain OG, FG, ABV Calculator, assuming the extra weight was the Golden promise. I will come out at about 4.4.
if I find this is the case when I take an Og reading, can I adjust it with more water, without loosing taste?

Use all the grain. You may still end up with lower gravity than the recipe suggests. The recipes are designed with an estimated brewhouse efficiency. usually that's 70 or 75%. As it's your first time you may well get lower - somewhere in the region of 65% would be typical.
If the OG ends up high you can always add more water. If you use less grain and the OG turns out low then you can't correct it unless you keep boiling for longer, but that will make it more bitter as the bittering hops will have been in the boil for longer.

Brew it all, and "liquor back" if necessary. If you have a way to reliably read the gravity towards the end of the boil - with a refractometer - then it's easy to tell and you can add extra boiling water to thin out the wort. If you only have a hydrometer you will need to cool down to the correct temperature to take a reading which can take time (maybe half a litre to cool in your sample jar). Or you could just wait until it's all cooled and take your reading then. I've liquored back with 3L of cold tap water before to top up the FV and bring SG down. Beer was fine.

 

[Rodcx500z]

It will be beer good luck Polcho, i was terrified when i did my first ag brew

 

[chillipickle]

Polcho if you have down loaded brewfarther, i quickly added the recipe it's not 100% perfect but will give you volumes etc.You can copy it to you save recipes.

https://web.brewfather.app/tabs/recipes/recipe/bAEORu5kPkDNIJTwblcivtOefvuQ3I

 

[Polcho]

Hi Chillipickle, I’ve looked for your recipe on Brewfather, I’m probably doing it wrong, but I can’t find it. What did you save it as?
Thanks.