Some beginner questions

[rpt]

I'm planning to start home brewing with kits soon before moving on to extracts and AG. Before I get the equipment I have a few questions:

Is it worth getting a fermentation vessel (FV) with a tap? Does it make taking samples for the hydrometer easier? Is it easier than syphoning out the beer or does it risk drawing out sediment or leaving behind too much liquid? Does it cause the beer to swirl up and mix in the sediment? Is it hard to clean and sanitise?

Some recipes just use one FV before bottling/kegging, some use an FV with an airlock, some start without an airlock and then after a few days add one. Some ferment in one vessel and then transfer to a second FV with an airlock. I've even seen one recipe where the lid is not put on the FV but it is just covered with a towel. Why all the different methods? This doesn't seem to be just personal preference as often the same author uses different techniques with different recipes without providing any explanation.

Finally, is it worth getting something like a King Keg instead of a basic keg? Should this be a top or bottom tap? Once I start drinking the beer will it keep OK? I understand that if I drink it slowly then the secondary fermentation will produce enough CO2 to fill the void but with quick drinking it's necessary to top up with CO2 from a bottle.

Sorry for all the questions. I don't like to blindly follow recipes but to understand it all.

Thanks for your help,
Richard.

 

[calumscott]

Get two FVs. One doesn't need a tap but if you get one great. The other needs to have a little bottler and its associated tap - this will make bottling bearable as you'll be able to batch prime and bottle with ease.

My process is to brew in FVs with no taps (because I'm lazy and haven't got round to fitting them) then siphon into the bottling bucket then bottle. Sanitising taps is easy - fill bucket with steriliser, open tap...

Siphoning should leave more yeast behind as you have better control but I can't really see it making that much difference really.

Use an airlock. They are cheap, easy and give better bio-security than any other method available to the home brewer. Get the u-bend type not the top hat type. Put is this way: there is no reason NOT to use one.

I haven't bothered with kegs, I don't want to drink only one beer for 40 pints... I bottle everything so I have a variety in stock. Well, I used to until I drank nearly all of it... :lol:

 

[fbsf]

Hi there, and congrats on starting a great hobby. Starting with kits is good practise and recommended. Extract and AG isn't that difficult, just more time consuming, but it pays to get the fermenting and bottling process down pat with low-effort kits before spending the time to do an extract/all grain.

FV with a tap is a great idea for sampling, but I would still syphon between FVs unless you can get a tube attached to the tap, otherwise the beer will splash too much causing oxidation.

2nd FV wise, I only use one for bottling (again with a tap and "little bottler" attached...a godsend for bottling) as my FVs tend to stay sealed under airlock (top-hat type - horses/courses)until it's bottling/kegging time.

Others prefer to transfer the beer to the 2nd FV after about 2-3 days to avoid infection, but I feel its horses for courses again there.

Keg wise, I would always advise something with a CO2 valve - either for 8g sparklets or S30 cannisters. natural carbonation will be ok for about half the keg, then it will run low and you run the risk of oxygen getting back in to fill the vacuum. A quick squirt with an S30 or a sparklet will give enough gas to dispense the rest of the brew safely.

Obv, if it's for a party and it's all going to be drunk quickly, just crack open the cap when it starts running slowly.

Bottling is preferable for carbonation and longevity of storage, but cleaning 40+ bottles can be a right faff, so up to you. I tend to do both - keep one in a keg for "normal" drinking, and bottle some for maturing.

 

[Mark-h]

I started with the coopers DIY beer kit which has everything you need for your first brew. I now use a secondary fv as well which has no airlock and a very tight fitting lid after 7 days in secondary I transfer back the primary to batch prime then bottle. Seems to me the most important thing is patience which is very hard on your 1st brew! As soon as you bottle it get another on the go! My bottles stay in warm for a week before going in shed for at least 2 more then I will chill them for at least 48 hours before drinking.

 

[LeedsBrewer]

Get the u-bend type not the top hat type.:

Why dont you like the "Top Hat" ones? I happen to agree with you and love my bubbler S ones but i'm wondering if you have any other reason behind recommending them other than "it's fun to listen to them".

 

[calumscott]

I don't like them because the hats keep popping off. Can't happen with a u-bend...

 

[PD]

there speaks someone who has never crawled around on the brewery floor looking for his top hat......
However sometimes they are useful they are a little less tall than the u bend and might help to get a bucket into a fridge.
I have both and now never use any for beer making........

 

[Baldbrewer]

I like me top hat, as I like tinkering and filling it up with vodka
Feel like I'm nurturing my brews :P
Also it's the only size that fits in my fermenting fridge :thumb:

 

[PD]

quote....
I like me top hat, as I like tinkering and filling it up with vodka


ha haaa, the secrets of a secret drinker.... what a whizz. and here's me filling them with sod.met..... bleah!

 

[Rayjustray]

Hi there from reading this people seem to suggest an airlock but the starter kit I've got doesn't have an airlock. Is there anything I should watch out for. FV exploding? Beer coming out the chimney? :grin:

 

[rpt]

Sanitising taps is easy - fill bucket with steriliser, open tap...

So no chance of dirt getting trapped in the tap or in the joint?

Use an airlock. They are cheap, easy and give better bio-security than any other method available to the home brewer. Get the u-bend type not the top hat type. Put is this way: there is no reason NOT to use one.

So why do few instructions mention them? Most of the recipes in one book I have suggest leaving the beer in the fermenter for about 4 days without an airlock and then fitting it. It does talk about skimming off any foam that develops - I suppose there is no point fitting an airlock if you keep opening the bucket to do this. I had wondered if the lack of airlock was to ensure there was enough oxygen for the yeast to multiply in the early stages of fermentation but I suppose an FV should be airtight - all the airlock does is allow the CO2 to escape. Is that right? Does the initial stirring ensure the yeast have all the oxygen they need?

 

[Baldbrewer]

The FV must not be airtight, the yeast creates CO2 as it eats up the various sugars in your wort.
If you don't have an airlock just leave part of the FV lid open so the CO2 can escape, don't worry about bugs getting in because this is a type of positive pressure and the escaping CO2 will stop any airborne particals getting into your FV.

Regarding skimming the surface, don't bother if you use a top acting yeast all you will do is remove healthy active yeast, once the fermentation stage is over this foam will compact and drop to the bottom of the FV.

One of the most beneficial things you can do regarding brewing and if you have the space and money is build a fermenting fridge , this has a temperature controller, a tube heater inside the fridge. You set the temp controller to 20C and between the controller,heater and fridge this temp will be maintained to within 0.5C
This stable environment is a key component to good fermentation.
Later in the fermentation stage you can crash chill down to 2-5C and this helps clear the beer.

There is lots of healthy debate about primary and secondary FV's , don't worry about that to start with because given time and patience you will still have a nice drinkable pint.

Good luck in your brewing adventures , there are some fantastic people on this Forum who gladly share their expertise and you don't even have to but them a pint

 

[LeedsBrewer]

It does talk about skimming off any foam that develops - I suppose there is no point fitting an airlock if you keep opening the bucket to do this. I had wondered if the lack of airlock was to ensure there was enough oxygen for the yeast to multiply in the early stages of fermentation but I suppose an FV should be airtight - all the airlock does is allow the CO2 to escape. Is that right? Does the initial stirring ensure the yeast have all the oxygen they need?

The initial stirring should provide all the oxygen the yeast needs.

I also read on a couple of AG blogs about people skimming the foam during the boil. - are you meant to do that?

 

[Rayjustray]

Thanks for the advice

Just cracked the FV lid and there was a noticeable release of gas (not from me ) ill check back on it after work to see how it's getting on

 

[rpt]

Thanks for all the answers.

I'm guessing that one advantage of using an airlock is you can leave the FV alone beyond the end of fermentation without risking the beer spoiling. Could be a definite advantage if you only have time to bottle at the weekend and fermentation stops on a Monday.

So is it OK to leave the beer in the FV for a week or two after fermentation ends or is it essential to rack into another FV or bottle/keg as soon as possible?

 

[rpt]

Another question about fermentation vessels. Is it worth getting a 33L instead of a 25L?

 

[fbsf]

I would say so, yes - the chance of the foam escaping if you have a lively brew (stout etc) from a 33L is a lot less than a 25L.

 

[calumscott]

Airlocks give you a controlled exit-only pressure release. They are also tolerant to stable pressure temperature fluctuations.

You CAN brew successfully without them, but, apart from space in a fermenting chamber, they have no drawbacks and as they cost about the same as a mars bar and a packet of crisps...

Why do so few mention them? Who knows, do beer brewers see them as the preserve of the winos? Beats me. I just see the microbiology - kill everything in the environment, add your substrate, add your carefully selected microbes, seal it until they've done their job, harvest. Airlock gives you an absolute seal such that if you have no nasties in there at the point of sealing, there is no way for them to get in there until you're done.

Successful method or not, leaving a gap twixt bucket and lid does not offer the same degree of bio-security.

All that said, when you're new to brewing you ARE going to open the lid and take a peek now and then leaving the whole debate utterly pointless! :rofl:

 

[Andyhull]

I always use an airlock too.
As you say Calum it gives you absolute security against not only microbes but larger predators such as fruit flies (etc) and if you fill them with a mild Steriliseing solution all the better.
Apart from the height issue i don't see a downside to them.

I will be buying a secondary FV but will only be useing it for batch priming and bottling as personally i don't see any advantage in taking the wort off the trub for the sake of one week extra, the beer will clear in the bottles and only add the tiniest bit of extra sediment to the bottom of the bottle.
I supose syphoning to a secondary and siteing it in a garage with a cold floor may do a little bit but not to an extent that i would notice.

 

[rpt]

This all sounds like great advice. Since the kit I have my eye on includes a 33L FV with an airlock I might as well use them. I'll start simple and can then try things like a second FV to clear the beer if I think it will help once I have some experience under my belt.

I am thinking that a second FV with tap to treat the water with campden tablets before brewing would be a good idea. The water here is soft but I don't think it is very tasty and I have noticed chlorine.

I just need to decide on a keg or whether to bottle.