So I bought this Graham Wheeler book everybody bangs on about...

[moto748]

And first up: full disclaimer; I haven't read it yet. it only arrived in the post today and I've just skimmed through it.

But I see it has a great selection of recipes, which should keep me busy for years to come. But I noticed that the recipes do not suggest a yeast. So looking back to the section on yeast at the front of the book, he more or less seems to say (paraphrasing), dry yeast is a bit rubbish, but S-04 is OK for a beginner, liquid yeasts are better, but have probably been sitting in transit somewhere forever, and starting your own yeast is the proper way to do it. I'm being only slightly unfair! *

Well even liquid yeasts are pushing the boat out for me! But my eye was caught by a recipe for Black Sheep. Could anyone suggest a suitable (pref dry) yeast? My limited stocks of yeast ATM are S-04, US-05, Verdant, and a Wilko. But I don't mind splashing out a few quid for something else!



* I also realise that this edition is quite a few years old.

 

[The Baron]

Hi Moto in the dried yeast I would try Windsor or Nottingham(Wilko Gervin). I tend to use dried yeast and very rarely use liquid.
I will not comment too much as it is a very tetchy argument regards Dry versus Liquid

 

[Gerryjo]

Either the wilko as mentioned by @the baron or S04 should work OK with S04 giving a slightly fruity note.

 

[An Ankoù]

Wyeast 1469, I think, is the one to use here. If not, Fermentis T-58 might do at a push and if you keep it cool. Quite different profiles, but S-04 sucks, in my humble opinion.

 

[moto748]

Actually, I've got a T-58, but I didn't. er. mention that...

Why have yeasts got designations like 1970s nuclear missiles, anyway?

 

[Covrich]

Wyeast 1469, I think, is the one to use here. If not, Fermentis T-58 might do at a push and if you keep it cool. Quite different profiles, but S-04 sucks, in my humble opinion.

+1.. While I try to avoid clones for the reason they draw unfair comparisons. I would personally use 1469 if you really want something close. to that style.

Not wishing to get shot here, but I think you have a greater chance with that than a dry style.. sadly

 

[Nottsbeer]

And first up: full disclaimer; I haven't read it yet. it only arrived in the post today and I've just skimmed through it.

But I see it has a great selection of recipes, which should keep me busy for years to come. But I noticed that the recipes do not suggest a yeast. So looking back to the section on yeast at the front of the book, he more or less seems to say (paraphrasing), dry yeast is a bit rubbish, but S-04 is OK for a beginner, liquid yeasts are better, but have probably been sitting in transit somewhere forever, and starting your own yeast is the proper way to do it. I'm being only slightly unfair! *

Well even liquid yeasts are pushing the boat out for me! But my eye was caught by a recipe for Black Sheep. Could anyone suggest a suitable (pref dry) yeast? My limited stocks of yeast ATM are S-04, US-05, Verdant, and a Wilko. But I don't mind splashing out a few quid for something else!



* I also realise that this edition is quite a few years old.

Hi, I have a very old copy, 1998 (can't see Black Sheep in mine!). Def a good book for ideas. I recall a thread on here where this book was discussed and someone mentioned that he didn't suggest yeasts for the beers as most would have been unavailable at the time outside the breweries. Guess this has changed over the years. On the couple recopies I've done from the book I've managed to find others on the web who have tried the style and recommend good yeasts. I've recently done TT landlord using 1469. Not ready to drink yet but was tasting very nice when bottled. Have fun brewing

 

[trueblue]

When Graham was alive and active over on Jim's he stated several times he purposely didn't advise any yeast's as you will only fully replicate a specific beer if you use the yeast from that brewery, he was lucky as he had worked with a lot of the brewery's so could source the yeast. I seem to recall we had said Windsor and Nottingham were the probably best he had tried but there are more dried yeast's on the market now and the liquid ones were still in their infancy. If you have a brewery near you in my experience most are happy to give you some as they always have a surplus although some micros will use dried yeast the best beers I have made were with live brewers yeast. Agree with him over SO4 wouldn't let that stuff anywhere near my wort

 

[Slid]

Wheeler does point out that without the brewery's own yeast, there is little chance of actual replication of the original beer.
If you read through the recipes for "bitter" they are essentially identical, just slight variations of Base Malt, Crystal, Goldings, Fuggles and Challenger plus the odd nod to Target hops.

I only use dry yeast to date and suggest US05 as a go-to. S04 is, indeed rubbish, IMHO, and Liberty Belle is a good "English" style.

Whoops, apologies to trueblue - we cross-posted! His info is better than mine.

 

[obscure]

I do like Graham Wheeler, he has some great recipes and I still use his recipes fairly regularly but one of the reasons I particularly like Greg Hughes is that he tends to recommend yeasts for each of his recipes (even if they are mostly liquid).

I do think you can get good results with dried, even S-04 which for a while was my go to yeast, which I would say is decent though not outstanding as long as you keep it in the right temperature range. I have being using Mangrove jacks Liberty Belle a fair amount recently and am planning to try using Windsor in a batch of Mild in a few weeks.

 

[moto748]

Tbf I get GW's reasons (especially at the time), and I didn't do any research first; I daresay If I searched here for Black Sheep, someone will have had a go and made yeast suggestions. And there's no reason why I can't replicate the same recipe with a few different yeasts, after all.

US-05 is my go-to for stouts, but I've never tried it in an English bitter type.

 

[TonyT]

A lot of folk saying that S-04 is rubbish, but not why. I’m genuinely interested in the ‘why’ because I’ve used it a lot in bitters and don’t have a problem with it.

 

[MickDundee]

A lot of folk saying that S-04 is rubbish, but not why. I’m genuinely interested in the ‘why’ because I’ve used it a lot in bitters and don’t have a problem with it.

I don’t like the taste, with the handful of beers I’ve made with it I’ve had to force myself through them. Also, despite claims that it’s highly flocculant I’ve always had issues getting beers made with S04 to clear very well.

I use dry yeast 90% of the time, but British “real ale” style beers are the only ones where (from my own personal experience) using liquid yeast makes a big difference to the finished product (and actually for witbier I have preferred the beers I made with MJ M21 to the one I made with WLP400).



I really like that Graham Wheeler book, but you can tell it was written quite a long time ago because quite a lot of the advice in it is quite outdated.

 

[An Ankoù]

A lot of folk saying that S-04 is rubbish, but not why. I’m genuinely interested in the ‘why’ because I’ve used it a lot in bitters and don’t have a problem with it.

Haven't used it for a while and difficult to remember precisely. I used to use it al the time, too, until I tried something else. I recall that it doesn't add much to the beer, but it doesn't ferment al lthat dry and clean, either. It's a perfectly safe bet for English ales and dark beers and in it's day it was THE safe bet. I don't like Nottingham very much, either.

 

[The Baron]

It is obviously the yeast that makes the beers taste different as most of the recipes are very similar in hoppage etc it is hard to realise how some of them could be different.
The book is a good recipe base but you will never clone any of the beers unless you have that magical ingredient - the correct yeast but you can make some good beers/ales from it as I have done over the years

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

Also, despite claims that it’s highly flocculant I’ve always had issues getting beers made with S04 to clear very well.

I've used SO4 more than any other yeast and have found it's probably the most floculant I've ever used and when I have had haze issues, it's been down to me rather than the yeast.

 

[dcbrookes]

I found the GW book a revelation when I bought it, although it now has its shortcomings. I started home brewing a very long time ago with a book by Ken Shales called "Brewing Better Beers". Most of the recipes used a tin of malt extract and a ton of sugar - I shudder to think of them now but at the time it was the only guidance available. After years of Ken Shales I progressed to Dave Lines's "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy" - much better but still not in the league of today's offerings. How things have changed!

 

[MickDundee]

I've used SO4 more than any other yeast and have found it's probably the most floculant I've ever used and when I have had haze issues, it's been down to me rather than the yeast.

It’s the only yeast I’ve had consistent issues with though. Every beer I’ve made with S04 (granted it’s only been 4 beers because I don’t like the yeast) has had haze issues. Of all my other brews I can count on one one hand how many have had haze issues.

 

[Sandimas]

S04 was my go-to yeast for many years, primarily because I bottle most brews and with this one it would stick to the bottom extremely well. But there seemed something lacking in the beer. So I've swapped over to MJ Liberty Bell and, whilst not as flocculant, the beers taste much better. Wilko Gervin (Nottingham) is my other go-to, I brew mainly British ales, will get in some US-05 for the occasional hoppy brew.

 

[CD]

After years of Ken Shales I progressed to Dave Lines's "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy" - much better but still not in the league of today's offerings. How things have changed!

Pity you didn't discover Dave Lines' original book 'The Big Book of Brewing'. That was the one that introduced Mashing to many, including me.