Should I go straight in at the deep end?

[johnnyboy1965]

Ok peeps, I'd been doing a bit of reading up beforehand, but since I've joined the forum I've been researching a lot more.

I was planning on starting with a couple of kits and doing kits for a few brews and then "speccing up" to either extract or straight on to AG.

After reading up on stuff and reading posts on here, should I just take the plunge and dive straight into AG? Or maybe do an extract while I make my MT?

I'm itching to get stuck in now... the only thing stopping me is the annual post-festive financial challenge (God, I spent a lot!!). So once payday comes around again, we're good to go.

What do we reckon?

Also, what do you reckon are the bits of kit that are nailed on essentials and what are the bits that "the book" says you need, but you can really manage without for a while?

The first thing about going AG is to think of the future. Can you boil on propane outside? If so its not worth buying a electric boiler. If you can brew outside Id always recommend that you go gas straight away. Its a bit of investment (apprx) £200.00 but well worth it in the long run.

 

[Birkin]

We all have different experiences, I disagree with all of that. BIAB takes me 5-6 hours, I can do an Extract in 1-2hrs. You don't have the mash stage with Extract, plus you don't have to spend anywhere near as long cooling because you're boiling a much smaller volume and adding cold water to it.

All my Extract beers have been superb, much better than your average pub ale, yet many of my AGs so far have been disappointing. Don't get me wrong, I'm a believe in ultimately getting to AG, but some people get there quicker than others, and Extract is really good middle ground in my book: yes it's comparatively expensive (but still way cheaper than going to the pub), and you can produce AG-quality beers, it's just that AG gives you infinite variations whereas the range of beers you can make with Extract is limited.

From speaking to my local homebrew shop owner, the extract (box) kits have come on a long way in fairly recent years, mostly due to the increase in grain / hop prices since 2011, meaning the market for kits is stronger and more competitive than its ever been.

It means more and more people don't see AG as being worth the extra investment (Equipment).

So older generations of home brewers are likely to have a very different view on kits in general.

It's a good point though, these days brewing from grain isn't cheap, it doesn't cost much less than a good kit, and arguably a good kit should be more reliable due to the removal of any issues due to mash efficiency / temps.

I like all grain, I enjoy the process, but I can see why some people stick to extract kits

 

[BREWERS DROOP]

I cant fault the Festival Endeavour kit i have done,done another today,love the taste,but its a limited edition so will no longer be able to get it.I have ordered my shiny new 70ltr pots from Germany,so will be needing some advice on the setting up the whole thing,drilling holes in the pots,thermometer and ball valve types advice etc.Spent alot of time watching John Palmer videos on you tube and several other videos to get a real insight of all grain,and i cant wait to take the plunge,if it dont work out,the shiny new pots will be on here for sale:lol:

 

[Wardy]

I cant fault the Festival Endeavour kit i have done,done another today,love the taste,but its a limited edition so will no longer be able to get it.I have ordered my shiny new 70ltr pots from Germany,so will be needing some advice on the setting up the whole thing,drilling holes in the pots,thermometer and ball valve types advice etc.Spent alot of time watching John Palmer videos on you tube and several other videos to get a real insight of all grain,and i cant wait to take the plunge,if it dont work out,the shiny new pots will be on here for sale[emoji38]

I certainly hope it all goes well for you. My first AG brew is fermenting away (slowly ). It was put in the FV and yeast pitched last Sunday at 3AM, yes, 3AM (I've learned not to start an AG at 8pm like I do with kits and have them in the FV by 9 PM.). The OG was 1.061 and is now at 1.040 chugging away slowly. It seems to me that extract kits are designed to be processed quickly but the choice of yeast with AG can have a very slow process. I know you can choose a different yeast to use in a kit but I never have and this first experience with a different yeast is a new eye opener.
I hope my first AG brew knocks my socks off because so far the process is a lot longer and needs much more effort that extract kits and I have pimped up some very nice ones.

 

[Niman]

From speaking to my local homebrew shop owner, the extract (box) kits have come on a long way in fairly recent years, mostly due to the increase in grain / hop prices since 2011, meaning the market for kits is stronger and more competitive than its ever been.
Im curious to the logic as kits do use grain and hops ...also ive been brewing long enough to remember bulk grain buys with the LOWER prices in recent years it hasnt been worthwhile....hops...yeah granted if u want hard to get /short supply hops u will pay for them..
It means more and more people don't see AG as being worth the extra investment (Equipment).
plenty of guides here that require minimal kit
So older generations of home brewers are likely to have a very different view on kits in general.

It's a good point though, these days brewing from grain isn't cheapemm yes it is (not including time), it doesn't cost much less than a good kit, and arguably a good kit should be more reliable due to the removal of any issues due to mash efficiency / temps.
unless u really mess up...reliability not an issue
I like all grain, I enjoy the process, but I can see why some people stick to extract kits
Birkin is offline Report Post

 

[Niman]

sorry for the above looked different in preview.....

 

[lukehgriffiths]

If you're going for something pre AG I would go extract... you get to practice with grain, hopping and cooling.

I did one and learned a few lessons before going AG.

 

[Birkin]

From speaking to my local homebrew shop owner, the extract (box) kits have come on a long way in fairly recent years, mostly due to the increase in grain / hop prices since 2011, meaning the market for kits is stronger and more competitive than its ever been.
Im curious to the logic as kits do use grain and hops ...also ive been brewing long enough to remember bulk grain buys with the LOWER prices in recent years it hasnt been worthwhile....hops...yeah granted if u want hard to get /short supply hops u will pay for them..
It means more and more people don't see AG as being worth the extra investment (Equipment).
plenty of guides here that require minimal kit
So older generations of home brewers are likely to have a very different view on kits in general.

It's a good point though, these days brewing from grain isn't cheapemm yes it is (not including time), it doesn't cost much less than a good kit, and arguably a good kit should be more reliable due to the removal of any issues due to mash efficiency / temps.
unless u really mess up...reliability not an issue
I like all grain, I enjoy the process, but I can see why some people stick to extract kits
Birkin is offline Report Post

From what I've seen a lot of the box kits are extract, granted not all are.

And yeah if you don't mess up reliability is not an issue...

Grain is not cheap, I'm not saying AG is cost equal to kits, I'm saying it used to be a lot cheaper than it is.

Do some research. Do you not remember the grain shortage of 2011?

Are you aware that there still is a hop shortage, and that hops have tripled in price over the last 5 years?

Grain is still at about double what it was in 2011 for home brew.

Given the extra effort of AG and the potential issues with a bad mash, I can see why more people are buying kits than grain.

Personally I think it's a shame, and I hope in the coming years grain and hop prices will recover, but there's no denying that grain and hops are now expensive ingredients compare to pre 2011 grain and hop shortages.

 

[Sandimas]

From speaking to my local homebrew shop owner, the extract (box) kits have come on a long way in fairly recent years,

Just for clarity, when I mentioned Extract I wasn't talking about 1-can or 2-can kits, I was talking about "proper" extract brewing with hops and maybe some grains i.e. you boil some hops, maybe steep some grains, and then add the "vanilla" malt extract (liquid or dried) to that together with some water to make up the volume. These are some examples:
http://www.brewuk.co.uk/beerkits/craftybrews/brewextract.html The resultant beer is much closer to an AG brew than a kit brew.

I'd agree that kits have come a long way since the days of the Boots Lager kits :-o but to me they still lack a bit of something: despite them claiming to be hopped malt extract, it seems like the production process kills off most of the hop flavour, so they really benefit from a bit of additional hopping (steep/dry).