Should I go straight in at the deep end?

[Notlaw]

Ok peeps, I'd been doing a bit of reading up beforehand, but since I've joined the forum I've been researching a lot more.

I was planning on starting with a couple of kits and doing kits for a few brews and then "speccing up" to either extract or straight on to AG.

After reading up on stuff and reading posts on here, should I just take the plunge and dive straight into AG? Or maybe do an extract while I make my MT?

I'm itching to get stuck in now... the only thing stopping me is the annual post-festive financial challenge (God, I spent a lot!!). So once payday comes around again, we're good to go.

What do we reckon?

Also, what do you reckon are the bits of kit that are nailed on essentials and what are the bits that "the book" says you need, but you can really manage without for a while?

 

[Wardy]

I would certainly advise doing a couple of kits first and progress to pimping them up. If you're confident then pimp the first kit up. I would suggest buying something like a Coopers starter kit that will provide you with everything you will need and then you can use that equipment to boil in the bag brews or full AG brews and the only thing you will need then is something to mash, boil and sparge with (like a Grainfather 😉)

 

[jenivida]

I did one kit and then went straight into the All Grain Brewing.

I think as long as you follow recipes you should be alright. My only all grain failures have been when I went experimental on the ingredients :wink:

 

[Halfacrem]

There's no perfect path, however as you're asking the question about jumping into AG, I'm getting the impression this is what you'd like to do (unless of course my amateur psychology skills are declining :smile:)

I say, small scale AG brews are just as good a school of learning as doing a kit. Others will see it differently.

 

[Spoon]

As someone who brews kits and has decided to dive straight in at the deep end of AG (complete with temperature controlled HERMS a-la the electric brewery) I'd advise to do as I say not as I do.

Do a kit (and bottle it)

Do a kit and build a keezer if that takes your fancy.

Do some extract brewing, the kettle is dead easy to make from an old FV and a couple of value kettles from morrisons (other supermarket kettles work as well). There's also partial boil methods where you just boil the hops in water on the stove top and add them to the extract in the FV which means you really only need the same equipment you need for kit brewing plus a ~5l stock pot.



It's taking me so long (and 3x more than originally budgeted) to build my HERMS system that I kinda wish I'd just kept it simple and at least I'd have some extract brews in the meantime.

The simpler option would just be to keep an eye on the for sale board and ebay, there's usually some bargains (relative to the cost of building anything) in either.

 

[Halfacrem]

As someone who brews kits and has decided to dive straight in at the deep end of AG (complete with temperature controlled HERMS a-la the electric brewery) I'd advise to do as I say not as I do.

Do a kit (and bottle it)

Do a kit and build a keezer if that takes your fancy.

Do some extract brewing, the kettle is dead easy to make from an old FV and a couple of value kettles from morrisons (other supermarket kettles work as well). There's also partial boil methods where you just boil the hops in water on the stove top and add them to the extract in the FV which means you really only need the same equipment you need for kit brewing plus a ~5l stock pot.



It's taking me so long (and 3x more than originally budgeted) to build my HERMS system that I kinda wish I'd just kept it simple and at least I'd have some extract brews in the meantime.

The simpler option would just be to keep an eye on the for sale board and ebay, there's usually some bargains (relative to the cost of building anything) in either.

And of course it is possible to do AG brewing with very minimal kit :thumb:

 

[Lanky94]

Ok peeps, I'd been doing a bit of reading up beforehand, but since I've joined the forum I've been researching a lot more.

I was planning on starting with a couple of kits and doing kits for a few brews and then "speccing up" to either extract or straight on to AG.

After reading up on stuff and reading posts on here, should I just take the plunge and dive straight into AG? Or maybe do an extract while I make my MT?

I'm itching to get stuck in now... the only thing stopping me is the annual post-festive financial challenge (God, I spent a lot!!). So once payday comes around again, we're good to go.

Also, what do you reckon are the bits of kit that are nailed on essentials and what are the bits that "the book" says you need, but you can really manage without for a while?

I have just done the same as what your thinking about doing. I went straight from making a Woodfordes Wherry Kit ( still in Primary), but will be doing my first AG this weekend. I did find doing the kit handy first though as it gets you in the mindset about getting things right, sterilizing, ferm temps etc. I now feel confident enough for my AG.

 

[Motorhomebrew]

I have just done the same as what your thinking about doing. I went straight from making a Woodfordes Wherry Kit ( still in Primary), but will be doing my first AG this weekend. I did find doing the kit handy first though as it gets you in the mindset about getting things right, sterilizing, ferm temps etc. I now feel confident enough for my AG.

Just what I was thinking.

 

[Blinky]

I would try a kit first, just to get used to the equipment, then jump to All Grain. I did about 6 kits but wish I had moved over earlier.

 

[cheapbrew]

If you're learning kits then you may as well learn ag, plenty of help on here, I've just done my first ag this week.

The sooner you do it the sooner you will learn, I say go for it, if you read on here and elsewhere those that move to ag don't usually wanna go back to extracts or kits.

A decent sized pan and net curtain and thermometer will get you started, other bits will make it easier as you acquire them

 

[duncans]

If you have a colander and a couple of big pans already you can go straight to all grain. 50 Brews in and its all I use. Don't get me wrong I want shiny toys, but it isn't necessary to start off.

 

[ManseMasher]

When I started I went straight in to AG. Steep learning curve, but aren't most things? Still learning - every day is a school day. Whatever route you take, it all boils down to the same thing - sanitise, prepare ahead, sanitise, patience, sanitise. And oh, did I mention sanitise?!

 

[GHW]

All I can offer is my experience...

I started off wanting to do something that involved some elements of 'real' brewing. Though for me that meant chucking some hops into a kit, using the festival razorback kit. That was ok, but i wanted more involvement in the process so went for extract brews. It's super easy, especially if you buy ingredient kits online. All you really need is s decent sized pot, though I managed with. 12L and topped up to 40pints. That made some decent beer, way beyond what I expected.

Once you've done extract brewing, the only thing you're missing is mashing. People write a lot of technical gumph about mashing, but ultimately it's soaking some grain in hot water. Yes it requires some control of temps, but it's not that hard. And you can use the same big pot you used for extract brewing. Just chuck a duvet over it and it keeps the same temp for hours.

So... The upshot of this rambling is, maybe do a few extract brews, then go ag. Follow clibits legendary guide and start small, then experiment. you'll learn quickly.

What's odd is that I produced better beer in my first few ag attempts than my subsequent ones.

That's because I started by following simple recipes that were tried and tested. Then I started faffing about with my own, and got more complex. My own weren't as good, but I learnt a lot more in the process, and I'm honing down what I can improve and what I like.

Just realised I'm still talking so shutting up now.

 

[TartanSpecial]

I'd do one kit (prefer 2 can all malt) to sort out sanitation, fermentation , bottling (or keg) etc (if you have a wilkos near you I'd use a pack of their Wilko gervin Ale yeast at £1.75). Then I'd but a kettle and (make an) immersion chiller do an extract brew to get used to handling lots of hot water, and boiling hops, chilling, oxygenating (I shake 3*7.5ltr vigourously in a 25lt plastic wine fermenter) . Then I'd buy or make a mash tun and you're there (plus a bit water chemistry maybe). You could go AG in one go but there are a few critical points that might be worth doing 'live' one at a time...and it will spread the costs...kit plus brewing bucket (month 1), then buy kettle (which can also be hot liquor tank in AG) month 2, then mash tun (month 3), then grain mill month 4 then ..then...
After moving form kits, I made the mistake of assuming I'd be satisfied doing extract brewing for ever...not the case...after one extract brew I was desperate to move on to all grain....(despite having ingredients for another 3 brews.)
You can also do it in a smaller scale via brew in a bag and do 10 or 15ltr batches...all depends on space for actual brewing and for equipment storage.

 

[Sandimas]

My experience has been different.

I started with kits and moved to extract very quickly, and stayed there for 4 years. I loved my beer and everyone said it was amazing, in 65 brews I had 1 failure.

I finally went AG this year thanks to Clibit, had a couple of successes but then it all went wrong and I've had 6 failed brews since. Maybe I was just unlucky, but I think if I'd gone straight to AG and had that many things go wrong I'd have given up. Plus, with an AG failure, that's 5-6 hours of your life you're never going to get back rather than 1-2 with a kit: the failures hurt a lot more with AG.

So my advice would be to do some kits and extract, to build up both your knoweldge and confidence.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Ok peeps, I'd been doing a bit of reading up beforehand, but since I've joined the forum I've been researching a lot more.

I was planning on starting with a couple of kits and doing kits for a few brews and then "speccing up" to either extract or straight on to AG.

After reading up on stuff and reading posts on here, should I just take the plunge and dive straight into AG? Or maybe do an extract while I make my MT?

I'm itching to get stuck in now... the only thing stopping me is the annual post-festive financial challenge (God, I spent a lot!!). So once payday comes around again, we're good to go.

What do we reckon?

Also, what do you reckon are the bits of kit that are nailed on essentials and what are the bits that "the book" says you need, but you can really manage without for a while?

For me I needed success from the start so I did....

A kit with hops additions.

An extract recipe

An extract with grains

then I won an AG kit so did that and it was drinkable but not up to my previous efforts, i did learn a lot from that experience but I've backed off full AG and am more than happy with the results.

I now do extract, sometimes with a little grain steep and sometimes with a mini mash

Learning all the stuff at the beginning was not my bag. And if i'd failed with my first brew I may have just stopped there. There was a guy on the forum BRUINTUNS i think he did 4 infected? / bad beers in a row and gave up. I think his enthusiasm may have jumped in over his ability as a beginner.

I preferred to build up my expertise, heck sanitising pre and post boil, bottle or keg

re: kit - hydrometer, thermometer, plastic FV, stirring spoon , plastic paddle with holes in it to aerate the work,sanitizing solution - if using star san some ph strips to test it is still in the ph range to be effective. If you're going to bottle a bottling wand and something to make syphoning easier e.g. an auto syphon. All of those things are used if you just do a kit or go the full AG.

p.s. suck starting a syphon could lead to your brew being infected some people say they've never had a problem but others have. best wished whatever you decide to do!

 

[WestEnder]

For me although I'd done some VERY basic kits about five years back I went all grain from start (although I'm still new) and have been happy so far with my decision. I did spend about six months buying kit and reading books before I made the first batch.

I was considering doing extract but a few things tipped me into all grain. Firstly I read the Mikkeller book which makes a good case for stating that all grain is the way to go. This supported a secondary reason - which was having turned into a thorough beer nerd during the craft beer etc boom, I really want to (as an ambition) make beers similar to those I buy and enjoy.

The VERY basic kits were beer (just) but not really what I wanted to do. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are some amazing extract brewers but it's not for me. Whilst I know I'll probably never get to the level of making a Saison Dupont, Meantime IPA or Rothaus Pils to name a few, for me the journey is the fun etc.

Finally, I'm a keen cook (and have been since my teens). Where I can be I'm a 'scratch' cook - that is I cook everything from scratch - raw ingredients. AG appeals for that reason and I've noticed a lot of comparisons between cooking and brewing so far. AG brewing is after all making a solution, followed by an infusion and a fermentation?

 

[Sutty]

I brewed some country wines as a teenager, then tried dreadful kit beer as a student 30yrs ago (I accept they are a lot better now!), recently took up brewing again and went straight to AG. I'm not regretting it! I am fairly clued in re water chemistry and sanitising etc due to my background though.

 

[martinjamesford]

I started with extract kits, then my own extract recipes, then biab ag kits, then my own biab ag recipes, now ag 3 vessel.

I'd say I could have missed out on the early extract stuff as biab is pretty straight forward.

Depends what you fancy really ... I didn't want to do to can based kits, been there and done that as a teenager & I wanted to build by own recipes the 'proper' way.

So I say read around, learn what you can and jump in where you fancy ...

 

[Covrich]

Up to you, going head first is a steep learning curve and some do it.

If it was me I would do a kit, this would get you to grips with the sanitising fermenter and fermenting stage and bottling which is consistent throughout however you brew.

You could kind of do both, a kit .. once that's all bubbling away try a small 5 or 10 liter AG batch on the hob.