Sexism taken too far?

[Gunge]

*Sigh*... I wish The Sun would bring back 'page 3', so long as they aren't using it to try and flog something to me in an underhand manner.

 

[-Bezza-]

Why would you want someone with traits that aren't suite to a role being represented in a role, you may as well say people naturally good at painting should be represented more in management. The person with the best traits (and skill and experience) for the job should be doing whatever the job is.

The point is being missed. Traits such as compassion, empathy and inclusiveness are just as valuable in a business environment as decision-making, challenge and competition. Just because we have historically valued the more male-dominated traits in business doesn't necessarily mean they are the best ones for the job. For a business that might employ hundreds or thousands of people, could they really be sure that they are able to get the most out of staff, say, by only having more limited skill sets as senior management level? What about the impact that might have on customer relationships? It's just a thought.

 

[-Bezza-]

*Sigh*... I wish The Sun would bring back 'page 3', so long as they aren't using it to try and flog something to me in an underhand manner.

And the less popular "page 8 mate"?

 

[Gunge]

And the less popular "page 8 mate"?

Can't remember that. Some fireman-type with his kit off maybe? Not for me but if keeps the lady readers and those of a certain persuasion happy, then why not?

 

[-Bezza-]

Can't remember that. Some fireman-type with his kit off maybe? Not for me but if keeps the lady readers and those of a certain persuasion happy, then why not?

That's the sort of thing, not doubt captioned with some double entendre about his hose, or how women's loins were burning or something. Perhaps it was the Sun's attempt at equality, 1990's style.

 

[simon12]

The point is being missed. Traits such as compassion, empathy and inclusiveness are just as valuable in a business environment as decision-making, challenge and competition. Just because we have historically valued the more male-dominated traits in business doesn't necessarily mean they are the best ones for the job. For a business that might employ hundreds or thousands of people, could they really be sure that they are able to get the most out of staff, say, by only having more limited skill sets as senior management level? What about the impact that might have on customer relationships? It's just a thought.

I think thats opinion more than fact but I accept society should look more at what traits make people better suited to certain jobs. I saw something a while back looking at the creative trait and how its needed in the top positions but most people with it don't get past the bottom as its a bad trait to have if your job is following rigid systems put in place by the people at the top. But anyway whatever traits are good for a job people with them should get them regardless of gender and it more men or women have the traits for the job then we should expect more of them to be in the job and not see it as a problem but as personal choice.

 

[Ciaran12s]

What makes you think this? I'm genuinely interested to know where this has come from as a concept - I keep reading about "virtue signalling" but I don't think I've ever seen a genuine example of it with my own eyes.

This was in reply to "who are all these Marxists?"
I was saying it seems that anybody with a will to make society more fair and equal is quickly bashed down as a leftist commy Marxist snowflake.

 

[Linalmeemow]

This was in reply to "who are all these Marxists?"
I was saying it seems that anybody with a will to make society more fair and equal is quickly bashed down as a leftist commy Marxist snowflake.

I only know one Marxist. He's a good bloke but his beliefs (and more particularly the fact that he's never going to get the society he wants) will stop him from ever being truly happy.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the "I'm all right Jack" thing. Most of the criticism of wanting a fairer society comes from people with the most to lose - white men, working class or lower middle class - who are afraid that they're going to lose their quality of life if women / immigrants etc. get a fairer go at life, and who are afraid of change.

 

[Dutto]

.......

I think PC estblishments should arise where the po-faced bunch of miseries can all sit together and plan their funerals...

In the good old days, the Red Lion here in Skegness had a "Men Only Bar".

Paradise on earth ... :thumb:

... then they shut the Men Only Bar ... :wave:

... and now (God help us all) it's a Wetherspoons! :headbang:

 

[jceg316]

I only know one Marxist. He's a good bloke but his beliefs (and more particularly the fact that he's never going to get the society he wants) will stop him from ever being truly happy.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the "I'm all right Jack" thing. Most of the criticism of wanting a fairer society comes from people with the most to lose - white men, working class or lower middle class - who are afraid that they're going to lose their quality of life if women / immigrants etc. get a fairer go at life, and who are afraid of change.

I agree, however white men have nothing to lose by treating others equally. It's not about taking away, it's about giving a fair chance to those who don't have one.

On another note, many love to throw the word Marxism around, often confusing it for Stalinist communism. It would be interesting to know how many have read Das Kapital. Granted it's a heavy text and not the easiest to understand, so it would be interesting to see who has studied around it in some way.

EDIT: On the topic of cultural Marxism, it's a highly anti-semitic conspiracy. Reading about it now, it has roots in Nazi propaganda and is used a lot by alt-right conspiracy theorists to "get their friends to hate the Jews and and the gays". Quite frankly it should not be used outside those circles.

 

[Dutto]

They could have a big dildo as a handle on the beer engine.

I remember those handles very well and can't look at one without remembering an incident from my younger years.

In 1968 I was with the 2nd Mate from the ship I was on and we had just about sprinted to a dockside pub in Immingham to try and get there before closing time.

Hot and thirsty we ran into the bar where the 2nd Mate announced to the Barmaid "Two pints of bitter please love."

Without even a glance at us the Barmaid replied "Sorry dear, but the towels are up." and waved her hand towards the pump handles on the bar which had a towel draped over them.

The 2nd Mate, who had a very posh voice, responded with a sentence that has stuck in my memory for nearly 50 years when he said:

"Madam, I am not enquiring about your menstrual cycle, I just want two pints of beer."

I knew immediately that the only beer we would be drinking that afternoon was out of a can and back on the ship ...

... and I'm still not convinced that the 2nd Mate knew what "the towels are up" phrase actually meant. :headbang:

Happy Days! :thumb:

 

[marshbrewer]

Blimey, you went into a pub in Immingham , and lived to tell the tale?

 

[Linalmeemow]

Blimey, you went into a pub in Immingham , and lived to tell the tale?

I did a day of work in Immingham a few years ago. It appeared to be the first day of work that had been done there for about 30 years.

 

[Dutto]

............

On another note, many love to throw the word Marxism around, often confusing it for Stalinist communism. It would be interesting to know how many have read Das Kapital. Granted it's a heavy text and not the easiest to understand, so it would be interesting to see who has studied around it in some way.

............

I have to confess to not reading Das Kapital but as a Member of the Labour Party (which probably makes me a "Trotskyist/Marxist/Stalinist Communist" to some Forum Members) I have read all 100 pages of the Labour Party 2018 Rule Book. :thumb:

I have also read English versions of The Koran, Bhagavad Gita and Guru Granth; all of which are religious texts that provide superb ways in which people should live their lives.

Unfortunately, just like texts on political matters, they are open to personal interpretation and over the years millions have died in the pursuit of their own personal "truth".

For me, my fall-back position is "The Ten Commandments" and just in case anyone can't remember what they are ...

1. I am the Lord thy God, thou shall not have any gods before me.
2. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything.
3. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
4. Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet your neighbor's house, wife, or property.

Numbers 1 and 3 are "religious" in nature and they are the easiest way in which to start a war! All it takes is for someone to say "My God is better than your God because it says so in The First Commandment." without realising that by making such a statement they are themselves breaking Commandment Three!

However, no matter what religion you do or do not follow, the other eight Commandments offer an excellent way in which to live a life. :thumb:


Note:

I don't consider Numbers 2 and 4 to be "religious" because they both contain excellent advice that is unrelated to religious matters. i.e.

• Number 2. An obsessive pursuit of power and/or money is a form of idolatry; and should be avoided.
• Number 4. Take a weekly break from work to spend time with yourself, your relatives and your friends.

 

[BarnBrian]

I have to confess to not reading Das Kapital but as a Member of the Labour Party (which probably makes me a "Trotskyist/Marxist/Stalinist Communist" to some Forum Members) I have read all 100 pages of the Labour Party 2018 Rule Book. :thumb:

I have also read English versions of The Koran, Bhagavad Gita and Guru Granth; all of which are religious texts that provide superb ways in which people should live their lives.

Unfortunately, just like texts on political matters, they are open to personal interpretation and over the years millions have died in the pursuit of their own personal "truth".

For me, my fall-back position is "The Ten Commandments" and just in case anyone can't remember what they are ...

1. I am the Lord thy God, thou shall not have any gods before me.
2. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything.
3. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
4. Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet your neighbor's house, wife, or property.

Numbers 1 and 3 are "religious" in nature and they are the easiest way in which to start a war! All it takes is for someone to say "My God is better than your God because it says so in The First Commandment." without realising that by making such a statement they are themselves breaking Commandment Three!

However, no matter what religion you do or do not follow, the other eight Commandments offer an excellent way in which to live a life. :thumb:


Note:

I don't consider Numbers 2 and 4 to be "religious" because they both contain excellent advice that is unrelated to religious matters. i.e.

• Number 2. An obsessive pursuit of power and/or money is a form of idolatry; and should be avoided.
• Number 4. Take a weekly break from work to spend time with yourself, your relatives and your friends.

Hey Dutto. You must be the only person I know that's worked at sea or offshore that hasn't broken Number 10.

 

[marshbrewer]

But Dutto, coveting all your neighbors property and then ganging up and stealing it all off him in the name of the workers is socialism defined, isn't it? :laugh:

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Sadfield]

I definitely read and heard the opinion expressed that these pump clips are part and parcel of the generally outdated "bawdy" attitudes of a generation of male drinkers that also think sexually orientated comments and actions towards female bar staff are funny and acceptable. Call me PC, but I feel in this day and age women should be able to freely work or drink in an environment free of this childish, Benny Hill ********.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

 

[Gunge]

Call me PC, but I feel in this day and age women should be able to freely work or drink in an environment free of this childish, Benny Hill ********.

PC, it's all a bit of fun and most women, in my vast experience, actually like the banter and flirting, innuendo and attention. And they are perfectly adept and happy to return it. There is a line to be crossed off course, but saucy pump clips aren't it ( and would never sway me to buy that beer)!

 

[Sadfield]

PC, it's all a bit of fun and most women, in my vast experience, actually like the banter and flirting, innuendo and attention. And they are perfectly adept and happy to return it. There is a line to be crossed off course, but saucy pump clips aren't it ( and would never sway me to buy that beer)!

Isn't that the point though, most not all. For the ones that don't, it is inappropriate and sexual harassment. And having an array of pump clips there making it look acceptable, also makes it hard to argue that it isn't.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

 

[Ajhutch]

https://www.brewdog.com/lowdown/press-hub/pink-ipa