setting up for simple all grain brewing, a few questions

[SafetyThird]

Ok, after working my way through the 'have a go at all grain' posts, I'm working out what else I need and what volume to work with.

I currently have a 14l stainless pot and a 34 litre high spec cool box. There's no valves on either so it's a case of pouring or siphoning out of them. My plan is to do a combination of brew in a bag and regular brewing. Heat the water in the pot to strike temperature, put a bag into the cool box to make removing the grain easier, pour the water into that and then add grain and mash in the cooler.

Then pour liquid back into the pot and boil as required.

I have a standard 5 gallon fermentation bin which I used with kits and then stored the beer one of my two barrels but I'm thinking that for all grain I'd like to use smaller quantities so I can experiment more often with different beer styles. I have half a dozen demijohns so I'm thinking of just doing 1 or two gallons at a time.

From what I can see, in the way of additional equipment, a brew bag would be useful, as would a hop bag but I can get by with everything else I currently have.

Questions:

Would the cooler be too big for the smaller volumes? It's a pretty high spec cooler so shouldn't have much heat loss over an hour, even with a larger than normal air gap. If this goes well I may consider adding a drain valve at some point.

If I'm doing small quantities and can fit the 5-10l needed into the pot, even allowing for reduction in volume from boiling off, is there an advantage to using a sparge compared to not sparging (proper brew in a bag style). I can either just pull the bag of grain and boil what's left or I could use a smaller amount to start with and then sparge with some hot water back into the cooler and put the grain bag back in, then mix that with the original mash. I'm just not sure I understand why you'd do one rather than the other.

How important is chilling the wort quickly? I see people saying they don't chill and just leave it somewhere cool overnight and pitch yeast in the morning. Is there an advantage to one or the other?

Finally, what recipes to start with other than the one at the start of the thread? I tend to like darker ales, traditional bitters and porters, though something lighter for summer might be a good idea as well. That's why I'd like to work in smaller quantities. My wife doesn't drink and I'm not a big drinker so there won't be many 'session' evenings but a pint of an evening is a nice little reward for a day's work. So I guess a bitter, a porter or stout and perhaps an IPA would be good options to start with. Preferably a reasonably simple recipe for each rather than something that needs a dozen different hops and malts

I'd like to pick up a few malts/hops in different styles to try a few different brews so I'm looking to get an idea of which malts would work for different basic beer types. SMaSH seems simplest but I'm trying to reduce the number of outings to the brew supply shop given the current circumstances or just buy everything online. Cost is an issue as my wife and I both lost our contracted employments this week so I'm looking to get a few malts in smaller quantities rather than 25kg bags etc just enough to do a gallon or two of each of three styles. so I have something to keep me occasionally occupied when I'm not digging the garden over the next few weeks. Once I have the basics worked out, I'll think about how to expand the repertoire from there.

Ok that turned into a longer screed than anticipated. Thanks in advance.

 

[MmmBeer]

Questions:

Would the cooler be too big for the smaller volumes? It's a pretty high spec cooler so shouldn't have much heat loss over an hour, even with a larger than normal air gap. If this goes well I may consider adding a drain valve at some point.

I'm not aware of any obvious issue in doing this, there may be some additional heat loss.

If I'm doing small quantities and can fit the 5-10l needed into the pot, even allowing for reduction in volume from boiling off, is there an advantage to using a sparge compared to not sparging (proper brew in a bag style). I can either just pull the bag of grain and boil what's left or I could use a smaller amount to start with and then sparge with some hot water back into the cooler and put the grain bag back in, then mix that with the original mash. I'm just not sure I understand why you'd do one rather than the other.

Sparging extracts some of the remaining sugars from the mashed grains, by doing it you can get more beer for the same money. It's a choice of whether economy or timesaving is more important to you.

How important is chilling the wort quickly? I see people saying they don't chill and just leave it somewhere cool overnight and pitch yeast in the morning. Is there an advantage to one or the other?

Users of either method will say that their method is better. The highest risk of contamination is during the time between wort boiling and yeast pitching. If you want to try no-chill, ensure the hot wort is transferred to a vessel (usually called a cube) that is sealed, allows the minimum air contact area and can flex to cope with the temperature change.

Finally, what recipes to start with other than the one at the start of the thread? I tend to like darker ales, traditional bitters and porters, though something lighter for summer might be a good idea as well. That's why I'd like to work in smaller quantities. My wife doesn't drink and I'm not a big drinker so there won't be many 'session' evenings but a pint of an evening is a nice little reward for a day's work. So I guess a bitter, a porter or stout and perhaps an IPA would be good options to start with. Preferably a reasonably simple recipe for each rather than something that needs a dozen different hops and malts

Lots of good books with recipes in out there, Greg Hughes Home Brew and Graham Wheeler Camra Brew your own British Real Ale. Darker ales tend to be more forgiving, a favourite of mine is the Old Peculiar clone in the latter book.

I'd like to pick up a few malts/hops in different styles to try a few different brews so I'm looking to get an idea of which malts would work for different basic beer types. SMaSH seems simplest but I'm trying to reduce the number of outings to the brew supply shop given the current circumstances or just buy everything online. Cost is an issue as my wife and I both lost our contracted employments this week so I'm looking to get a few malts in smaller quantities rather than 25kg bags etc just enough to do a gallon or two of each of three styles. so I have something to keep me occasionally occupied when I'm not digging the garden over the next few weeks. Once I have the basics worked out, I'll think about how to expand the repertoire from there.

The bulk of your malt will be a base malt, normally classed as Pale malt or Maris Otter. Other than this a small amount of crystal malt is used in many british recipes, a darker roasted malt like chocolate or black malt for colour and toasted flavours and something like torrified wheat or flaked oats, which add body and mouthfeel to beers.

 

[SafetyThird]

Thank you very much indeed, that clears up most things. I've just found the greg Hughes book on Ebay for a fiver so that's on it's way to me now.

I'll try chilling the pot in the sink this time or I could transfer into a warmed demijohn and fit a stopper to keep the air out and let that cool naturally

So, I could get a larger bag of something like Maris Otter as a base malt and some smaller packets of specialty malts to build different beer styles? Great, that makes sense. I'll start looking at recipes more closely.

 

[MmmBeer]

One tip I found when chilling in the sink, make as much ice as you can beforehand, fill the sink with just cold water first and place the pot in to cool, when this water has warmed up, drain and refill with cold water, then on the third fill, dump your ice in.

 

[cushyno]

With a decent stock pot and a large enough coolbox you have great flexibility. Options:

1. BIAB solely using the stockpot
2. Full volume Mash in coolbox
3. Mash and sparge (trickle or batch) in coolbox

With a bag-in-coolbox arrangement there is less mess than grain straight into coolbox and it's simple to tip the wort back into stockpot, meaning no faff with siphoning. This is how I've done most of my brews, however now I'm crushing my own grain (finely) there is a need to siphon and vorlauf back through grain bed, but it can work well with the bag in place. You probably won't need that step with a regular crush.

It's worth doing a batch sparge for an extra 15 minutes of time.

Here's a tip. Brewers Friend tells me the temperature to heat strike and sparge water to. I consistently need to heat 4degC higher than recommended to hit mash temp as the coolbox takes some of that heat away. Try it, take notes, and be prepared to adjust mash temp with boiling or cold water.

I've used the same setup as you for 10l batches. After a couple of brews I invested in a peco boiler and immersion chiller kit from TheHomeBrewCompany, which has served me well for 18 batches of 23L so far.

Good luck with your brewing, you seem to have a fair idea how you're going to make a start.

 

[SafetyThird]

Thanks very much, that's a big help. I'll use this set up and mash in the coolbox for now and get familiar with doing that and then see if I want to move to something else.

Quick question about the batch sparge, is that where you dump the bag of grain in a container and soak it in the water for 15 mins, or do you pour over the grains collected the water underneath them. My thought had been if I'm sparging then I'd lift the bag of grain out of the cooler, hang it for a few mins to drain, put it in a bucket while I pour the wort out of the cooler back into the pot, then put the grain bag back into the cooler, pour the water in and let it soak for 10-15 mins, drain the bag and add the new sparge water into the pot.

The other option seems to be to put the bag of grain into a colander in a bucket and just pour water through the grain.

 

[MmmBeer]

Any of those methods will work, the easiest is probably to remove bag of grain, pour wort into pot, refill cooler with water at 75-80°C and dunk bag of grain back in cooler for 10 mins.

 

[SafetyThird]

Great, that's what I've been thinking. All I have to do is decide on what grains/hops to buy and pick up those and a bag, should be able to get a day to brew next week.

Thanks again for all the advice.

 

[cushyno]

The method you describe, putting grain bag into another vessel is what I use. I pop my grain bag into a FV while draining the coolbox, then put bag back in coolbox and pour over sparge water, give it a stir, put lid on and leave for 10 mins. Sometimes I stir half way through.

James Morton in his book describes pouring hot water through a hanging grain bag. I think the batch sparge is more effective at washing out extra sugars.

 

[terrym]

James Morton in his book describes pouring hot water through a hanging grain bag. I think the batch sparge is more effective at washing out extra sugars.

James Morton is correct. However arguably at the home brew level it doesn't make all that much difference and for some homebrewers batch sparging is more convenient. At a commercial level continuous sparging is used because it is more efficient.
More here
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/fly-sparing-vs-batch-sparging/

 

[SafetyThird]

Interesting thanks, I'll have a read.

Now, next is the bag, is there much difference between a cheap mashing/sparging bag for £6 from HBS https://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.u...ashing-Sparging-Bag--Better-Brew.html#SID=175 and the much more expensive brew bag https://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.u...=brew bag&PN=The-Brew-Bag-30-40L.html#SID=175