Sensible first time keg advise sought

[Victor Churchill]

Hi,
For many years I've been doing bottles-only brewing. Way back in early days I used a PB but haven't looked at them in years.

Recently experimented with re-using supermarket mini kegs (Hobgoblin) with reasonable success but the usual caveats (very foamy at start, lose pressure as barrel goes down, limited use-by time, metallic taste after a couple of uses).

Interested in dipping my toes in the ocean of kegging but really know nothing about spear heads, disconnects, etc. so I am looking for an idiotproof first time setup that will let me brew, keg, keep pressurised (though I don't need or want particularly fizzy brews), and dispense without breaking the bank.

I've seen this 10 litre keg with fixed tap ('Single Walled' Black 10L Mini Keg with Fixed tap, CO2 valve - Dark Farm) which looks nice but obviously means you can't switch the tap to another keg...

I don't know whether to go for this or to try to find a 'party tap' I could attach to my existing 5 litre kegs. Or get some proper 5 litre SS kegs plus tap. Or even to try the full 19 litre Corny keg road, but I feel nervous about what else is needed for that.

Suggestions welcomed!...

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Here’s some advice I’ve given previously that might help, or may help you figure out your next set of questions

If you decide to use corny kegs (and that’s a good choice) you will obviously need the keg(s) but also some other bits.

You don’t need to worry about carbonating drops or priming sugar for carbonating your beer in a corny keg, you’ll use CO2 gas for that so let’s start there.

You need a supply of CO2. This is normally obtained from a bottled gas supply company - I use Adams Gas. You pay a one-off deposit (around £50) for the bottle and then pay for the gas (around £20 for 6Kg which will last many months).

You need a primary gas regulator to regulate the pressure coming out of the bottle. The pressure in the bottle is around 500psi but you won’t be putting anything like that in your corny - this is more likely to be in the range 10psi to 30psi. The primary regulator fits directly to the gas bottle and has two gauges; one showing the bottle pressure and one showing the pressure you’re sending to your keg(s).

View attachment 40400

You need some pipe to take the gas from the regulator to the corny keg. This is usually 3/8 inch. If you have more than one keg you need a manifold, this has one gas input and 2 to 6 outputs. Each output has it’s own isolation valve and has a “check valve” to prevent back-flow. Again, these usually have 3/8 push-fit inputs and outputs.

View attachment 40398


At the keg end of the pipe you need a ball-lock gas disconnect with a 3/8 John Guest push-fit connector. The picture below shows a pair. The grey one is gas, the black one is beer (we’ll come back to this). They are different sizes so make sure you use the right one on the right post of the corny keg.

View attachment 40399

Gas goes into the keg to carbonate your beer and push the beer out. The corny keg has a gas-in post and a beer-out post. The black ball-lock disconnect goes on the beer-out post and you’ll need some more pipe from the black disconnect to whatever tap you choose. Normally the beer pipe is a smaller bore, most commonly 3/16 inch. You may need a John Guest 3/16-3/8 straight coupler if the black disconnect comes with a 3/8 push-fit connector and you’re using 3/16 beer line. You may need the same at the tap end unless you buy taps with 3/16 John Guest fittings.

 

[MmmBeer]

A corny keg set up is expensive initially, but trust me you will never look back.

 

[Victor Churchill]

Here’s some advice I’ve given previously that might help, or may help you figure out your next set of questions

Thank you HB that is very clear and informative and makes it much clearer to me what's involved in a corny setup.

 

[UKSkydiver]

My experience;

I really didnt know what to buy or where from and there are so many options.

I simply went with a Complete Keg Kit from Brew Keg Tap.

All you need in one hit right there. I started looking at sourcing separately, but the cost wasn't particularly cheaper, plus I would have had to pay multiple shipping charges, I would had multiple transactions to manage and I would have the headache of ensuring compatibility (bearing in mind the starting point of no knowldge)

Once you get them and do a bit of research, you will see that it's all pretty self explanitory.

Yes, a large outlay in one go, but as mentioned, you won't look back. Also cornies themselves keep their value, so the largest outlay (kegs) can be resold without too much depreciation if you find that its not for you.

 

[The Baron]

A corny keg set up is expensive initially, but trust me you will never look back.

I second that MmmBeer it may be expensive to start but they last years and years and the only real expense after that is gas.
I never looked back and even brew to 20/21ltrs which fills a corny and no bottles either afterwards so I am virtually bottle free.
Garlic Bread its the future

 

[Rodcx500z]

I victor i got the full setup from bkt Jonny is a great bloke to speak to as well, be warned they mutiply quickly i now have 3

 

[MmmBeer]

Plus 1 for BKT, bought a two keg kit a year ago for just over £200, and have resited adding more kegs since.

Did buy a chest freezer though, to convert into a keezer.

 

[Gwen]

I started with bottling, then pressure barrels. Never had much luck with the PB so I have just kegged my first cider today. I bought a second hand 19ltr corny keg then bought the 2 19ltr keg kit from BKT. Got a few little extras to get the kegerator done, which I am starting this week. I am already thinking of a 10ltr ones to take away with us when we go away in the motorhome. I think the size of your keg really depends on how big your brews are.
Yes its an expensive initial outlay, (husband looked rather shocked when I told him how much) but once you've got it all setup you just need to keep them filled for drinking .

 

[The Baron]

The other thing to look at is when you buy cornys is that you may spend between £50-£100 per keg depending on new or old but it is money in the bank and if you decide in the future to stop kegging they will attain at least if not more than you paid for them so it's a safe outlay of your funds and easily recoverable

 

[Victor Churchill]

Amazing. After the first couple of replies above I kind of felt my inner uncertainty about Corny kegs confirmed - "OMG there's so much stuff to deal with" - but then read a few more responses, went to look at BKT, and I think I am gonna go for one of their get-you-started kits. There's one that comes with a Pluto gun and a Soda Stream converter which is tempting, as I don't think I am quite ready for making a kegerator or getting a full size CO2 cylinder yet. I am wondering if the CO2 regulator can take the old S30 cylinders, I have a couple of those in my brewing stuff drawer.
Thanks all for the fantastic response.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Victor, unless there’s a practical reason for not going ahead, do it. You will soon get your head around it and will be pleased you did. Ask more questions to clear up any uncertainty if you want.

In the end it’s just a keg, gas with a regulator to carbonate your beer and push it out, and a tap to turn it on and off.

 

[Tanglefoot]

Amazing. After the first couple of replies above I kind of felt my inner uncertainty about Corny kegs confirmed - "OMG there's so much stuff to deal with" - but then read a few more responses, went to look at BKT, and I think I am gonna go for one of their get-you-started kits. There's one that comes with a Pluto gun and a Soda Stream converter which is tempting, as I don't think I am quite ready for making a kegerator or getting a full size CO2 cylinder yet. I am wondering if the CO2 regulator can take the old S30 cylinders, I have a couple of those in my brewing stuff drawer.
Thanks all for the fantastic response.

That was the kit I bought, really good quality kit.
I have since also bought a 10L minikeg which I use with the same regulator/pluto gun set up.
Like you I was a little overawed by all the workings but it's pretty straightforward once you get
started.

That said I'm already contemplating a move to a full size CO2 tank, good thing is the regulator in the kit
is ready to go once you unscrew the sodastream adaptor.

 

[MmmBeer]

If you use a soda stream cylinder, prime your beer with sugar, rather than carbonate with the CO2 and just use the gas for dispensing. Otherwise you will end up using up a cylinder for every couple of brews. Despite their small capacity, SS cylinders are almost as costly to exchange as 6.3 kg cylinders.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Kegs are a great example of "buy cheap = buy twice"

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

I know it can feel a bit intimidating: I was scared to death that I'd buy expensive bit that wouldn't fit together.
Don't worry, it's easy really.

Here's an example of a full setup based on a 19L Corny (I don't see the point getting a smaller one as the price is basically the same and part-filling it is fine so long as you flood the headspace with CO2).

• Keg: Premium AEB 19 Litre New Stainless Keg
• Ball-lock connectors: Premium CMB Disconnect Set Inc. JG Fitting | The Malt Miller
• Serving tap: Beer Storage and Dispense - New and Used KEGS and Fittings - Premium Party Tap & Line - The Malt Miller | The Malt Miller
• Gas tube (get a couple of metres): Beer Storage and Dispense - New and Used KEGS and Fittings - 3/8 Natural Beer/Gas Line - The Malt Miller | The Malt Miller
• Pressure regulator: Beer Storage and Dispense - New and Used KEGS and Fittings - Premium CO2 Regulator - The Malt Miller | The Malt Miller

The only other thing you need is a gas cylinder.
A full sized (6kg) cylinder works out cheaper over time: look up your nearest AirLiquide or Adams Gas supplier. Expect to pay £35-50 deposit on a full size (6kg) cylinder plus about £20 for the CO2 itself.
Alternately if you want to go the SodaStream route you will need an adaptor to go on regulator: Sodastream adapter for CO2 Regulator

Overall setup cost £150-200; repeat cost £20 per annum (ish)

EDIT: optional but recommended is to add a non-return valve to avoid the risk of beer getting back up the gas line and into your regulator: Beer Storage and Dispense - New and Used KEGS and Fittings - Disconnect Check Valve - The Malt Miller

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

I also bought from Brew Keg Tap and would highly recommend. Take note: there is more cleaning than you might think and bottling still has some advantages over kegging.

 

[Victor Churchill]

I sent Jonny a maillast night asking about S30 cylinders. Probably sending off an order this morning. Funnily enough I was just starting to wonder last night about just how cleaning happens, especially considering there will be settlement in the keg due post-priming conditioning. I will search around but any thread pointers will be helpful.

Interesting you say there are still some advanages to bottling @Binkei. I can indeed see arguments on both sides. Does kegged beer take longer to condition before it's ready, by the way?

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Does kegged beer take longer to condition before it's ready, by the way?

Well assuming you force-carb it should be quicker because there’s no secondary fermentation to be completed

 

[Victor Churchill]

Well assuming you force-carb it should be quicker because there’s no secondary fermentation to be completed

Ah, I was recalling reading a suggestion that you should do priming in keg to economise on the CO2 used.